U.S. Gov't Calls IT Training Grant Program "Ineffective"
4/24/2002 -- According to a story published April 15 in the San Jose Mercury News, the White House is looking to gut a $138 million fund for technology training in order to speed up the processing of H1-B visas.
The H1-B Technical Skills Training Grants program originated in 1998 as part of a compromise to increase the cap on H1-B visas, the article says. The goal of the the program was to encourage U.S. citizens to train for IT positions, thus offsetting the need for companies to fill jobs with foreign employees. However, according to reporter Jennifer Bjorhus, in a budget proposal sent to congress in February, the Bush administration called the program is "ineffective" and said that it "'has no prospect' of educating workers to take the place of people on H1-B visas."
"According to the Bush administration, the H1-B Technical Skills Training Grants are teaching low-level computer skills that aren't lifting US workers up to the level of highly educated foreigners on H1-B visas.." she writes.
Money for the program is currently taken in part from H-1 B visa application fees. According to the story, the Bush administration would rather use the $138 million in funds to speed up the processing of H1-B visas which, in some cases, can take up to five years to process.
To read the full story from the San Jose Mercury News, click here.  - B.N.
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There are 64  user Comments for “U.S. Gov't Calls IT Training Grant Program "Ineffective"”
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| 4/26/02: Highly Skilled American Programmer says: |
Having worked in IT for over 7 years as programmer, I can honestly say that there is a huge misconception about the skills of foreign techies. I've worked with Chinese, Indians, Indonesians, Russians, etc. Yes, they are willing to work their butt off just to stay in this country. But they are VERY conniving and deceitful in hiding their lack of knowledge and ability. What's impressive is not their technical skills, but rather their ability to organize and manipulate the American system to put on the perception of being highly skilled. Anyone can go out and read a book and recite back a bunch of acronyms during an interview and then work 24 hours a day trying desperately to live up to the expectations they created (although these expectations are not really that high at $15/hour or whatever). Even if a person has tech skills, it takes another set of skills (communication, business understanding, etc.) to actually APPLY those skills in a business setting. I would take a group of 3 highly skilled, logical, talented techies over 50 foreigners any day. And history only goes to prove my point that homegrown Americans are the ones that lead any technical revolution. We create the industry and then foreigners overload the industry (Ex: auto industry, electronics, IT, etc.). Fortunately, though, our best minds are by that time are off creating the next new technology. Anyway, I think one of the problems is upper managements inability to gauge technical skills. If you have the choice between an American and a foreigner who both claim to have the same ability, obviously you are going to choose the cheaper of the two. So I don't think keeping or eliminating this program will have any effect on this problem (unless of course you send the managers to tech training). I don't really have a solution to offer, except that I think we need to filter and downsize the amount of foreigners getting into this country. 9/11 is proof of that. The whole H1-B Visa program seems like it is more hassle that it's worth. It's short term benefits just aren't worth it. Improving our education system by elevating the level of tech training and eliminating the stereotype that tech jobs are for nerds would help too. |
| 4/26/02: Lawrence from Philadelphia, PA says: |
This is a free country. Employer can hire american or H1B holder at its own wish. The business drives this opportunity. Let the employer decide. |
| 4/26/02: Convinced from Midwest says: |
I have been saddened, amused, and convinced that after reading all of the comments here; that the problem is not with holders of the H1B visas or with mainstream Americans. The problem lies with corporate businesses and with those who stole the election. I think anyone who wants to come to America to become an American citizen and work in America should be allowed to do just that. After all, the only true Americans are the American Indians. But corporate America is allowed to do just what it wants to and they have the backing of the Mob boys in the White House. But, what if we hit corporate America where they would truly feel the pain? I believe there would definitely be some changes as a result. So lets stop bickering at one another and go after the real bad boys. Hit below the belt with some boycotts, keep the power in our pockets and see how they respond to that? |
| 4/26/02: Anonymous says: |
TO Highly Skilled American Programmer: By what basis do you over generalize and say that American born or more intelligent than Foreign? If you look at all the standardized exams, its been shown time and time again that US students do not make the grade in Science and Math. This country puts out too many lawyers and too few scientists. Often times the people who succeed in this country are not the most skilled or intelligent ones, but the con artists and politicians. |
| 4/26/02: Anonymous says: |
Why need H1-B vias? Our homeland got good IT people. They are all waiting for a chance to show themselves. |
| 4/26/02: Mike from IL says: |
Just a commment on getting rid of immigrant workers. If we wanted to get rid of them, the US would have to adjust the perception of the jobs those folks fill--hotel cleaner, warehouse, agriculture, and temp jobs whose agencies don't care whether a person is legal or illegal. Those kinds of jobs are typically low-paying, and we would consider them an option maybe after HS or in college, just to make a buck before moving on. But no one really wants to stay in those jobs. Why? Because they don't pay much and have few or no benefits. Those kinds of jobs are considered 'dead end' and NO ONE wants to have a dead end job. Thus the apparent need for immigrant labor to fill those needs, unless you'd like your relatives and best friends to step up to the plate and make, at best, $6-10 an hour. |
| 4/26/02: h1bholder says: |
I am an H-1B holder from Canada, and have been working in the US IT industry for 5 years. Yes, I have worked my butt off in these 5 years. I have met very smart American collegues and some very moronic ones. Overall I can say that the average American IT worker IS NOT as educated. If you are talking NON-programming IT work, most people do not even have a college degree. These High School diploma IT people with their MCSEs should be grateful they are making 70K with there MCSEs. They did not have to go get a engineering or CS degree to make that kind of money. They are lazy when it comes to updating their skills. Yet I hear people moan and groan about H-1Bs taking their jobs away. Yes H-1Bs overal are very well qualified and almost all H-1Bs have degrees. Where as probably less then %50 of american IT workers have a degree. Lower education levels coupled with all around laziness, is not good. You figure it out. |
| 4/26/02: Highly Skilled American Programmer says: |
Reply To Anonymous: Yes, I agree that the facts show that American kids score lower on proficiency tests. Americans in general probably are less educated than foreigners. For example, Americans have no need to learn additional languages, whereas this is commonplace in other lands. But I would take the top 2% of the American techies to go up against the top 2% of the foreign workforce any day. Like I said, send the managers and the HR hiring crew to tech training, and then maybe they'll be better educated to hire the right person. My point was that although there is a smaller pool of tech workers to choose from American citizens, that pool also contains the individuals who are the "best in the biz". China and India make up almost half of the world's population - obviously there are going to be a lot of workers to choose from. I personally have not yet been impressed by the tech skills of the numerous H-1B people I've worked with. Reply to h1bholder: As far as American IT workers not being as educated or holding as many college degrees, I'd have to agree with you there. I've met several Chinese workers who had to earn the equivalent of a doctorate before they could even be accepted to attend a graduate school here in America! By the time they get to the work force, they may have spent over 15 years in school. Do you think that's a good use of time for a career in IT??? I personally have a degree in Electrical Engineering, and I have not used that education in my job at all. The only reason I got it is to get the piece of paper and make a reply to people like yourself that think that's so important. And, yes I agree, that a lot of Americans IN GENERAL are lazy. Why do you think so many of us are so fat? My point was that the best IT workers are typically homegrown techies. With a little stimulus perhaps that number can go. I think it's ridiculous though when companies think they can hire some cheap labor to come and solve their problems. Like I said, I'd take 3 talented American with tech skills and communication skills over 50 foreigners. I say this from experience. |
| 4/26/02: Ken from Ohio says: |
To Kelvin from Georgia Let's not talk about computer skills, when a firm is paying other employee 50k a year, a foreigner on the same position may only get 30k, of course not always that much difference...but they are A Lot cheaper. |
| 4/27/02: ITManager from Chicago,IL says: |
I would like to address a couple of comments mentioned here and go off the subject of the grant program. First quote - "If you look at all the standardized exams, its been shown time and time again that US students do not make the grade in Science and Math." Let me interject another statements that follows the line of logic and assumptions that the postee presumes to be true to help clarify why the conclusions drawn in that statement are false and misleading. I've seen this brought up numerous times by H1B's to justify their mere existence. Statement: An insurance company in their product brochure makes a statement that 17% of men by the age of 50 have a heart attack and die so consequently to shelter you and your loved ones from that risk you need life insurance. Now read between the lines in that statement. It doesn't say "all men" nor does it explain how that statistic of 17% was derived at does it? Now question the facts, are those 17% smokers, genetic factor related or plainly who are those 17% and what segment of the population are they comprised of. The top 17% of 10% of the population? Now do you see how statements like that are false and misleading in the conclusions drawn by the reader. I would bet you or the reader bought the life insurance based on that statement. Yes it probably is true that the 17% do die but as a generalization it is not true and that is what is misleading. Now with that said back to the statement about standardized exam scores. It doesn't take much logic to see why the statement is a false generalization. Read between the lines and question the facts presented. Are they teaching just to teach to meet those standardized test question standards, what segment of the population are you comparing the results too, was the same exam given in the same test environment? I could go on and on but you should see my point why the statement made is a false generalization stated in such a way to make the reader draw the wrong conclusions. I presume the postee's source of authentication is some newspaper article or some magazine source with little or no credibility. Another untrue statement: "This country puts out too many lawyers and too few scientists." In reply to this statement this leads me back to the standardized exam statement, America is based on Democracy and a lawyer would never let you get away with making a statement like you said about exams. You want the satisfaction of ripping a page out of a book for your case but you don't want to supply your book to the rest of us to question the validity of the statements made in that book. Scientist, I don't know what other country leads the world in the number of scientist, unless maybe your country of origin is a leader in the technology of extracting Uranium isotopes by some technologically advanced centrifuge process. Another false statement: "Often times the people who succeed in this country are not the most skilled or intelligent ones, but the con artists and politicians." So you are saying Bill Gates is a con artist or not intelligent or not the most skilled. The Walton family is comprised of con artists. The postee who posted this doesn't even deserve to be working in America as far as I am concerned. Now to address those statements made that Americans are lazy. What is your reference that you base your results on? You are the reference? I could probably find someone who could say you are lazy too based on their reference, themself. What a vicious circle. I could go on but I would get dizzy trying to explain it and by the time I got to the final person who said that it would be the first person who said it and I would have to start all over again. Your "lazy" generalization logic is pointless to justify H1B's. Audience I'll be back later with a posting to address the grant program subject which will highlight a large insurance company and their H1B support and why American IT professionals are being shoved aside. Not even Peter Drucker is privy to this information. |
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