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Current  user Comments for "Microsoft Announces Retirement of MCSE+I, MCP+Site Building "
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| 1/12/01 - Patricia Scott says: |
Maybe you should do an article or series of articles on how pissed off and abandoned people fee who have worked so hard to get their certifications and are now being pushed into expensive recertifications to favor Microsoft's marketing plan. I agree that we need to keep abreast of today's technology, but their heavy-handed aproach to discounting the very people who are supporting their products and generating sales for them sucks. As a database professional it has caused me to serious consider changing my focus to Oracle. I'm about sick of the certification hype anyway. Regardless of what Microsoft says, the NT certification is bound to be valid for a good long time. Many businesses are not as eager to jump to Microsoft's tune as they may like. Sure it will come eventually as product support dwindles and technology requires change, but it will be at the decision of the corporations themselves - not Microsoft. |
| 1/12/01 - Becky Nagel says: |
Excellent suggestion, Patricia. It's definitely a topic to explore. Let's start the conversation here. Everyone: Do you agree that Microsoft's recent decisions regarding its certification program are being made in favor of its marketing plan, at expense of those certified? Or are these just the natural changes any certification program must go through to remain relevant? I'll gather the comments and see where it takes us. -- Becky Nagel, Web Editor, CertCities.com ([email protected]) |
| 1/12/01 - Wagner Mateo says: |
How soon does Microsoft really think that companies are going to start deploying and supporting Win2K, Feb 28th??? - Get Real! This was an unfair move for MS, a retirement of Fall 2001 would have been more realistic. The timeframe for 3.51 retiration was far more extended than this. Wagner Mateo MCSE New Jersey [email protected] |
| 1/12/01 - Kevin Dill says: |
Its probably a bit of both. The NT MCSE is hardley worth the paper its printed on anymore. I say this realizing that there are many MCSE's who are truly competent and deserve to be certified, but there are also many MSCE's who are paper tigers. Part of MS's rationale has to be to restore some credibilty to their certificatons. The MCSD and other developer certs have not had the same dilema, as a person with little experience would find it most difficult to pass a programming exam after just reading a book. |
| 1/12/01 - JMZ says: |
How can you blame MS for wanting to move the MCSE certification to the next level. The days of NT4 are numbered. MCSE4.0's are a dime a dozen. all you 4.0's in California can use your certifications as fuel to heat your homes during the energy crisis! 3.51 - 4.0 - 2000 = progress! it is a wonderfull thing! |
| 1/12/01 - Tom J says: |
You are talking about 13,000 of the almost 1 million MS certified people who have these certs, I assume the effort and time required to upgrade these certs to be current. Cisco also retired a CCIE track I was eyeing for SNA, it is supposedly being dropped for lack of intrest. If people are not pursuing these certs should they continue offering them? |
| 1/12/01 - Tom J says: |
That will teach me to try to post while I am working on other things! I was trying to say; I think the effort and time required my Microsoft to upgrade the track with meaningful exams to restore the value to these certs is way beyond how much energy MS wants to spend if only 13,000 people are going to try to get them. |
| 1/12/01 - Anna Boat says: |
I'm one of those "paper MCSEs" and proud of it. I worked hard for my certifications, with no experience in the field. The one thing that I did understand going in is that my certification is a starting point. I took a technical job where I can get the experience. If the MCSE 2000 undercuts people like me, where can we go for true entry level training? Is the problem more with the training centers promising amazing career choices with only the MCSE and no experience? I found the MCSE 4.0 track to be about as much as I could handle (It ain't easy being green). My company is very happy with my knowledge base, and plans on helping me retain my MCSE with the 2000 track. I did not expect to be the know-it-all systems admin. out of the gate, but I'm a very well prepared technical coordinator, with an eye on 5 years from now being a very well prepared systems admin. |
| 1/12/01 - Ice Beer says: |
I think Microsoft should come out some sort of "Designer" Certification similar to CCDA/CCDP to replace MCSE+I. Since there will be several "design" exams released soon, and there are already three in live version (Net. Infra. design, Security Design, Active Directory Design), it should serve as a premium certification since system design require extensive industrial experiences and indepth technical knowledge. |
| 1/16/01 - Ray Garcia says: |
Had Microsoft waited until W2K had a large market share to announce the retirement of the NT4 MCSE I would have said that this was the natural order of things. W2K was still a gleam in Bill Gates eyes when the retirement was announced. This was definetly a marketing ploy. How do you announce the retirement of something when the replacement exams (and cert) were not available, and the product iteself was barely out of beta. |
| 1/16/01 - Bill McNammara says: |
This new certification process is just about money money money!!!! Sure progress is good and very important. But it is Microsort's continued arrogance that bothers me and many other MCSEs. There is really no justification for the high price tag on Microsoft's certification and testing process. This is merely defend under the guise of increased value. So I have decided that I am not going to upgrade my certification. The time, money, and aggravation simply are not worth just learning about how to use a Microsoft product. Instead, I will invest my time in earning a Computer Science degree from a "real" school of learning -- college. In the end it may be a little more expenseive and take a litte more time. But, it will certainly be worth it since this will be one certification which cannot be unilaterally taken away and its value greater. So what would I say to Microsoft, "stuff it." |
| 1/16/01 - Just Me says: |
Well, I think a lot of people forget what the M stands for in the MCSE. It doesn't stand for Me or for Millions. M stands for Microsoft. So, Microsoft uses the MCSE for marketing purposes. Who cares? |
| 1/16/01 - Mike Adams says: |
I agree with Ray above - how do you announce the retirement of something when the replacement exams (and cert) were not available yet? While the W2K cert is definitely part of the natural order of things, I feel it was rushed a bit to pad Microsoft's pockets. If they had proceeded a bit more slowly, they may not have burned so many bridges. Concerning the "value" of an MCSE - I started working on mine about a year ago. I have 3 years experience in the field, and I still need to take the TCP/IP exam. I feel that experience should have been a prerequisite for getting your MCSE cert., and that would have helped to restore its value. I have worked hard to become an MCSE, and the dedication of time and resources has NOT been cheap. Let's not forget - Microsft certified these "boot camps" to train people in two weeks how to be an MCSE, because they wanted to push their certification out onto the market. They devalued it themselves. Think it won't happen again? Watch and see. Though I don't agree with the time frame for the certification expirations, I say let them do what they want. At $100 a pop for the tests, I wonder who is getting rich from the process, anyhow. I think $50 is much more reasonable. |
| 1/16/01 - Former MCP says: |
I strongly agree with Bill above. I will not invest any time pursuing any more Microsoft certifications. I rather spend time earning my college degree in CIS or pursuing CCNA/CCNP certification. It is just too costly to pay for MCSE classes, books, tests, and study hours to have it all taken away so Microsoft can push Windows 2000. Several companies have recently upgraded to NT/98/95. I do not think they are going to Win2k anytime soon. Microsoft should keep MCSE for NT 4 intact and have a separate Win2k MCSE certification. The only way I will pursue any more Microsoft certifications is if the company I am working for pays for it. Goodbye Microsoft! Hello Cisco! |
| 1/16/01 - Dennis Says says: |
I totally agree with you fellows. Microsoft is a money hungrey corp. We work so hard on our certs and they are retiring the NT track like it is a piece of trash. Unbelievable! Smart as they are, you would think there would be a way to tell the difference between NT or WINK2 cert. Linux, here I come. |
| 1/17/01 - Josh Paul says: |
Experience backs up the certifications. The MCSE is considered a premium certification for a reason. It is not intended to be an entry level cert. So based upon that fact, without experience, the cert is worth nothing and that reflects the attitude of most managers in the industry. The so-called "paper" MCSE finds it rather difficult to get a job based on the cert alone. I am planning to upgrade my MCSE since it goes hand in hand with the job experience I am obtaining now. If my company were not upgrading to Win2k, then neither would I upgrade my certs. Get certified on what you work with, otherwise you do all the other people who have worked for their certs. |
| 1/17/01 - Scott says: |
Microsoft is a bunch of crooks, they think they can do anything they want and get away with it. I personally think they're wrong and will regret what they are doing to the 4.0 track. I agree you need to push forward and keep up with technology, but forcing people and companies alike to abandon products some of them have just recently gained is a big headed idea that only Microsoft could come up with. I will choose to go with Cisco from now on, their certs are going to get you a better paying job anyway. So I say Microsoft can do what they want,pretty soon no one will care about them anyway. |
| 1/18/01 - agree with ice beer says: |
a designer certification makes a lot of sense to me |
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- B.N.