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.. Home .. Certifications .. Cisco .. Exam Reviews ..Cisco Exam Review Article Thursday, August 28, 2003

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Designing for Cisco Internetwork Solutions (CCDA)
640-861, Cisco's new version of the CCDA exam, tests your knowledge of IPv6, VoIP, SAFE architecture design and the Enterprise Composite Network Model.

by Andy Barkl

2/10/2003 --
Exam Spotlight

Exam  #640-861: Designing for Cisco Internetwork Solutions (CCDA)
Vendor Cisco
Status Live
Reviewer's Rating "The CCDA exam has finally been updated and it includes all the latest technologies and design methodologies, which adds difficulty to this entry-level exam.."
Test Information Apx. 58 questions, 75 minute exam. Cost: $125 (U.S.). .
Who Should Take This Exam? Candidates for CCDA and CCDP.
Test Objectives Click here
I tackled the original CCDA exam 640-441 in May 2000. This latest CCDA exam is a nice refresh of an old test and includes many of the latest technologies and design methodologies. I received 58 questions and was given 75 minutes to complete the exam. The passing score was 825.

The Cisco Certified Design Associate (CCDA) certification was released by Cisco in 1998 and is used as the first step towards a career in designing Cisco networks. The previous version of the CCDA exam was in desperate need of a refresh and Cisco has accomplished that with this new exam. The CCDA certification is a requirement if you choose to pursue the Cisco Certified Design Professional (CCDP).

The CCDP certification requires you to pass three core exams from the CCNP track and the Cisco Internetwork Design (CID) exam which was also refreshed earlier this year. More information can be found here.

The main objectives of the CCDA exam are analysis, modeling and planning small to medium size networks. You'll find a primer from Cisco here.
.
Beyond this information, to increase your chances of success, you can take the official Cisco DESGN course for instructor-led training or try one of several self-study guides. For my original exam study I used Designing Cisco Networks from Cisco Press for study, but this book doesn't have everything you'll need for the new exam.

To update yourself, make sure to check these resources on Cisco.com:

· SAFE design guide
· VoIP design guide
· IPv6 fundamentals

Although study guides are still in development at the time of this writing, you can expect new books from Cisco Press, Sybex and others. One of the more popular books on Cisco network design is Priscilla Oppenheimer's Top-Down Network Design from Cisco Press. This book comes close to the exam but is lacking the detail for SAFE, VoIP and IPv6.

The CCDA certification requires knowledge of many fundamental design concepts and methods using Cisco products and technologies. The CCDA exam covers these topics from a business and implementation perspective. In this article, I address some of the high points to study for the new exam by mapping to the official exam objectives, which you'll find here.

Analysis
Some of the sub-objectives in this category include gathering and evaluating information on the existing social, data, and voice requirements of the owner's current network. This exam topic requires you to demonstrate your ability to dissect a fictitious network scenario and identify the current and future needs to aid in the new design. These scenario case studies aren't new to IT certification exams (Microsoft exams use them) and you'll need to eliminate the fat thrown at you and find the meat of the information that will help you answer the question. This type of question requires careful reading.

Tip: I find it helpful to read the case study, review the questions and reread the case study to locate the answers.

Learning how to analyze an existing network requires practice and skill. The first thing you need to do is ask many questions of the decision makers, management and IT staff. These questions should be used to solicit answers that can be applied by the network designer for a scalable, verifiable and secure network design. Sometimes the network designer doesn't have the necessary people or business skills to be successful when dealing with the company's staff, and this is where a good project manager can make the difference. Regardless of who collects the necessary information, most design work is performed on existing networks, and the information is crucial.

The type of information that must be gathered includes business goals, social requirements, current data and voice network and future needs, possibilities for network improvement along with validation of the information and documentation. Business goals can include an increase in revenue and profit, improving communications, business partnerships, business expansion into worldwide markets and the ability to offer new or improved customer support services. Social requirements define the use of the network based on the company's business goals by its users and can include locations, market position, investors, vendors and customers.

Analyzing the customer's requirements for data and voice can be more complex, but the best place to start is by sampling the traffic patterns with a network analyzer tool to create baselines. With the collected baselines, you can begin the planning and modeling design work by identifying solutions and developing an implementation. For the data portion of the collection, give consideration to the different protocol types and network operating systems in use. Many protocols are broadcast-based, such as Microsoft's NetBIOS. These types of protocols can present a unique challenge to the network designer if hierarchical design methodologies aren't followed. For more information and a detailed baseline "best practices" white paper, click here.

Cisco's three-layer hierarchical design model includes the Core, Distribution and Access layers. Understanding the application, benefits and limitations of this design model are crucial to passing this exam. The Core layer is the backbone of the network and should only switch traffic at a high rate of speed with no changes being made in the design at this layer. The Distribution layer is where traffic control occurs with access lists, firewall design, address or area aggregation, broadcast domain definition, vLAN routing and security. The Access layer may include shared and switched bandwidth client connections with support for MAC layer filtering. You can find more information on the three-layer model and many other network design basics in the Cisco Internetworking Design guide found here.

Validation and documentation includes the need through pilot or prototype testing to show that a design will meet the customer's business, technical, and budget goals. Documenting the finding of testing, the designer and customer will have a record of the solutions showing the design details, which can then be passed on to the network engineers for implementation. Understanding exactly which design details need to be communicated to the network engineers is a requirement of this exam, and you need to know just how much to include. Relevant information includes the justification for design, an overview with specific steps with clear concise details to avoid confusion.

Modeling
Network design modeling is the core topic of this exam, and it's no wonder since this is where specific design issues need to be brought to the table to identify available solutions. Sub-objectives in this category include: solutions for IP addressing needs, routing protocols, network management, equipment and technology for Campus and Enterprise Edge design, Enterprise Composite Network Model and voice traffic over a data network.

Solutions for IP addressing include: NAT, private IP addresses and VLSM. This exam includes the standard subnetting questions and design considerations for network address translation and private IP addressing. You also need to demonstrate an understanding of VLSM with routing protocol support. VLSM is often referred to as subnetting a subnet. It is a design solution that reduces the network's routing tables at the edges and is very scalable.

Tip: Practice VLSM addressing calculations just like you did for standard subnetting to prepare for this exam RIP version 1 and IGRP are classful routing protocols, and they don't support VLSM. Remember that VLSM requires the subnet mask to be sent with all routing updates.

Private IP addressing solutions conserve Internet IP addresses but require NAT and sometimes proxy servers to perform the translation between private and public addresses and vice versa. This new exam does include IPv6 questions and you should be ready to demonstrate your understanding of address formats, abbreviations, subnetting and loopback addressing. Take the time to review the IPv6 fundamentals reference material earlier in this article.

Network Management solutions can include SNMP, CDP and CiscoWorks 2000. SNMPv3 is the latest Simple Network Management Protocol. It includes support for security features such as authentication and encryption, which has been highly anticipated by the network management community. The first half of this document will give you all that you need to prepare for this exam (click here to access.)

CDP or Cisco Discovery Protocol is a Cisco proprietary network management tool that can be useful for documenting and troubleshooting your Cisco network. The limitation of CDP is reporting features on neighboring devices; but its greatest feature is that it is media- and protocol-independent and operates at the data link layer. CiscoWorks 2000 is a suite of management tools for the LAN and WAN. Service Level Manager is a plug-in to CiscoWorks 2000. You should be familiar with its operation for this exam. More information can be found here.

Equipment and technology for Campus and Enterprise Edge design includes identification of the right Cisco device for the application. Most CCNA and CCDA study guides include the proverbial Cisco product chart for both routers and switches. This exam references the latest and greatest, such as the 3600 series of routers and 6500 series of switches. You should be comfortable with the Cisco product chart. Learn more here.

The Enterprise Composite Network Model includes various modules of a network security design as outlined in this document, titled, "Extending the Security Blueprint to Small, Midsize, and Remote-User Networks." For this exam it's imperative that you understand the design philosophy behind Cisco's SAFE security architecture design. The ECNM allows network designers to focus on each area of the enterprise and campus design for a layered approach to security. Each network device and module such as the campus, edge or WAN can be secured against attacks from the outside and inside. A layered approach to security design is highly recommended in all cases.

I briefly mentioned voice traffic over a data network or VoIP and referenced a fundamentals document earlier in this article. There are also a few implementation details on this exam that you should be familiar with. Much of the fundamental information can be found here.

Cisco Press also has a great book on the topic, Voice over IP Fundamentals, by Jonathan Davidson and James Peters.

The exam covers various trunking, PBX and Centrex line basics. T1 digital trunks have become a popular choice in North America as the need for bandwidth increases. The PBX switch offers many features such as integrated voice mail, local lines and PSTN trunks. The Centrex line provided and managed by the LEC (Local Exchange Carrier) offers additional services similar to the PBX switch such as call transfer, three-way calling and a closed user-dialing plan.

Silence suppression is another challenge for VoIP networks, and it's often circumvented on the switch by VAD (Voice Activity Detection) configuration.

Remember that finding the correct Cisco solution is elementary to passing this exam since it's vendor specific and vendor sponsored.

Planning
This is the final exam topic. The sub-objectives in this category include developing an implementation, prototype testing and verification plan. When it comes to planning, the old rules still apply; successful projects include 99 percent planning and one percent perspiration. The exam includes scenarios that ask you to identify the correct order of steps, identified as implementation, prototype testing and verification. You may also see questions asking you what step or steps should follow the initial technical design phase prior to the hand-off of the design to the network engineers.

Knowing when to develop an implementation plan is crucial to a successful design if you want to keep your job or be invited back to a customer's site. The implementation plan is usually one the final responsibilities of the network designer and can include the detailed steps relayed to the engineers as noted earlier. In most cases, prototype testing is completed prior to implementation and this is followed by a verification plan.

You should understand the reasons for prototype testing, which include proof of design both technical and non-technical, knowledge of a competitor's design, and user and support staff consensus with the design for usability and management included. Prototype testing may be performed on a test network in a lab, integrated into a production network for off-hours testing or integrated into a production network and tested during normal business hours. When using a production network for prototype testing, you should warn the users, administrators and network managers in advance. Also included in prototype testing is a test plan, which should spell-out the objectives, types of tests, resources required, scripts and timeline milestones. Objectives can include various measurements of response time against the baseline information gathered in the analysis phase. The tests to be run during the prototype are application response, throughput and network availability. Resources required will include a list of hubs, switches, routers, workstations, servers, simulators and cables. Test scripts will generally include the steps taken to meet a particular test objective and acceptance criteria.

Verification plans usually include documented findings to support your network design for a prototype or implementation.

The CCDA certification is the first step in the right direction if you choose a career in designing Cisco network solutions. This new version of the exam could help you decide if you have what is takes to be successful. If you pass it, you'll have a greater understanding of Cisco's network design philosophies. Good luck!


Andy Barkl, CCNP, CCDP, CISSP, MCT, MCSE:Security, MCSA:Security, A+, CTT+, i-Net+, Network+, Security+, Server+, CNA, has over 19 years of experience in the IT field. He's the owner of MCT & Associates LLC, a technical training and consulting firm in Phoenix, Arizona. He spends much of his time in the classroom but has also been responsible for many Microsoft Windows 2000, Exchange 2000, and Cisco networking deployments for many clients across Arizona. He's also the online editor for MCPMag.com, TCPMag.com, CertCities.com, and a contributing author and editor for Sybex and Cisco Press. He hosts a multitude of exam preparation chats monthly on MCPmag.com, TCPmag.com and CertCities.com. You can reach him at .


More Cisco Exam Reviews:

Post your comment below, or better yet, go to our Discussion Forums and really post your mind.

Current CertCities.com user rating for "Cisco Exam # 640-861, CCDA" is 5 stars - true gurus only
2/11/03 - dsilva  says:
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This is not a comment about the CCDA. But I can't seem to find a feedback link to TCPmag.com anywhere. Perhaps you will pass this on to them. I purchased a "STUDY GUIDE" from TestKing. It had well over 100 errors in text and content. I infomed them of this and told them I would dispute the charge. Their response was well we'll mention it to the writers. I have disputed the charge and will not pay for it under any conditions. It was the biggest ripoff. You would think people would be ashamed to offer such garbage for sale. But then this is the Internet where people get screwed out of their money. For TCPmag.com to continue to accept TESTKING as a sponsor is unethical. I will be writing letters to the FTC and whatever consumer protection agencies I think might be useful. I guess the old saying goes "CAVEAT EMPTOR". [email protected]
2/15/03 - Gary Green  says:
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Mr. Barkl, I just read your review of this exam and you hit it right on the head! I have taken both the older 640-441 and the new one and they are markedly different. With your permission, I will share your review with other members of my team who are yet to tackle this exam. Gary Green Insight Solutions Engineer
2/21/03 - Tito Andrei Fontanos  from Philippines says:
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This is the kind of review i've been waiting for. Clearly, the new CCDA exam is a great departure from the old one. Now I know what to expect come exam time for me. Great article Mr. Barkl.
2/25/03 - George  says:
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Can anyone tell me where to find additional resources online for material on the new CCDA exam? Thanks.
3/4/03 - Anonymous says:
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Use a search engine you monkey
3/19/03 - Anonymous says:
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Well, there certainly seems to be a certain amount of confusion about the new syllabus for the CCDA Exam. I myself am confused as to whether Cisco has or has not released it's official study guide as yet. Anyone care to clear the confusion?
3/25/03 - Andy Barkl  from Phoenix, AZ says:
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Thanks for the kind remarks! The new Sybex CCDA study guide will be out in July and the Cisco Press book will be released somtime this summer.
4/4/03 - William Melville  from Chicago, IL says:
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Great review, I have yet to take the CCDA exam and have been studying for the 640-441 exam prior to the decomisioning of the exam. With this review I feel more confident of what information I may have been lacking.
4/9/03 - Mike  from Preston says:
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Lads, it's hard work revising, but the stuff's not rocket science. Wait until you see the CCNP stuff.
4/15/03 - Passed in November  says:
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I passed the CCDA on my first attempt with an 88%. I thought the exam was difficult and unfair. There were a lot case study questions which I would probably answer differently each time I took the exam. There were also some absurd questions such as "what are the three derivatives of SDLC." I studied about 10 months for this exam and read 5 CCDA books. I would have done just as well if I had only studied 50% of the time because of the nature of the questions. Good Luck!
4/22/03 - Bill  says:
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Hey, do you have any links on Cisco's website for the VOIP and IP6 covered in the test? Thanks.
4/23/03 - Anonymous says:
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I passed the CCDA today. There're 70 questions to be answered in 2 hours with minimum 825 passing score. Some new questions like IPv6 and IPv4 co-existing ways, how to implement voice in the network, security issues... I took five-day training class, and the training material covers most of the questions.
5/16/03 - Anonymous says:
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i would not waste your time on the new exam unless you are some kind of network design expert. I thougth that having my CCIE would make the exam easy- not the case. so i took the instructor led class @ cisco training partner, & 1 of 13 people passed. i went 3 rounds with that exam to pass. ...quite frankly.. . . it makes me scared of the CCNP!!!
5/22/03 - robertngo  from Viet Nam says:
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your shortcut need to be considered again. some of them can not finish their job
5/27/03 - perron397  from Germany says:
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I took the test and bombed. 620 did not cut it! The exam was difficult because I thought it would be similar to CID 640-025 which I passed the previous week. If I knew IPv6 and SAFE and Enterprise Composite Network Model and VOIP then I would have done better. Where is the book Cisco ?
6/4/03 - Anacelia  says:
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I saw new questions about "Implementation Plan" in the planning phase. But where can I look for this info. ? in the old ccda material there is nothing about it.
6/6/03 - dzenan  from bosnia says:
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I also took the test yesterday and failed.I had 610, because i learned 640-441 and that is not enough.There is a lot new questions and that is not corect there is no official study materials for this exam.
6/15/03 - mahmoud  says:
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i failed in this exam last th. day becouse of i haven't new study guide
6/16/03 - han  from singapore says:
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i studied the dcn book and flunk it at 698...is studying the dcn, safe, voip and ipv6 enough..there was a mention of dsl topic as well? is this required? do i need to practice on questions on case studies? or do u think just reading will allow me to score or just pass? just finished reading the safe..but its mostly the terminology..not so much the concept..concept is rather easy to me..just the terms. cheers everyone.
6/18/03 - Anonymous says:
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I took the test for the second time today and didn't pass again. This time I was even closer (790 out of 825, first time 725 out of 825). I suggest to wait untill the new study guides are coming available;
6/18/03 - V,SB Moorthy  from Singapore says:
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The review by Andy Barkl is a wonderful reference for everyone. I failed just last week. (Reason as u guess... I read only the DCN study guide for 640-441). So my sincere advise to everyone is if you can cover the reviewed material by Andy Barkl in depth then go ahead or else just wait for the Cisco press new CCDA tile to be released. Good Luck.
6/27/03 - Bil Herd  says:
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This article is right on the money. I am a CCNP w/Security Specialist and have passed my CCDP tests but had to go back to pick up CCNA as it expired the week before. Much to my chagrin, I failed the test not once but twice, the second time I finishes with 2minutes to spare as I analyzed each question as much as possible. I knew VOIP, QOS and IPV6 but got tossed by the SAFE and “Planning” part of the test. It turns out that this may have been covered under Top Down Network Design but I was scheduled to take the test the next morning (third morning in a row) and if I had the book, it was at work. I found the new CCNA test on Bosons website, http://www.boson.com/tests/routermfg.htm and filled in what I was missing. Right in the explanations, they say this is counter-intuative and they were right… an example is Cisco defines a prototype as being built on a live network. Coming from the hardware design field, this is the exact opposite; a prototype is a stand alone thingy off in a lab. My advice is make sure you understand the differences between a pilot and prototype and the implementation steps, know which modules are which in the SAFE model, the steps to an implementation plan and absolutely understand what Cisco calls: Business Goals, Business Constraints, Technical Goals and Technical Constraints. I finished the last test in under 25 minutes and missed 6 questions. BTW, also learn the difference between the distance vector routing protocols and the link state backwards and forwards.
6/30/03 - Gerry  from Dallas, Texas says:
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Failed like all the others with a 677. I didn't do my research and believed the Official Cisco Exam Topics. I had a lot of VoIP and IPv6 questions that were not covered in my studies. Found this article after I had taken the test. You would think that Cisco would get the Official Exam Topics in-line with what they are actually testing for. I would not wory with the books that are out there now. I will attempt again but will possibly wait for the new books to come out. Only question I have is what is the new CCNP test going to cover?
7/4/03 - Anonymous says:
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I failed with a 710, but I see the new books will be out this month. It was frustrating to fail when I realized that there weren't even study guides out yet for the new exam. The only problems I had was the IPv6 and VoIP questions. Sybex and Cisco Press are both releasing the books this month. Wait for them. :)
7/5/03 - Anonymous says:
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It sound as if the new associate tests are not for the entry level, but for techs with in depth experience.
7/15/03 - Johnny 5   from Madison, WI says:
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Wow, took the exam today and failed *again* with a score of 806 (got 750 the first time) after passing all 4 CCNP exams in a month. Getting more details on the implentation plan would be extremely helpful. I had 3 questions today and had no idea. This isn't even covered the the Boson practice test, so definately wait for the official study guides to come out unless you're on a time crunch.
7/15/03 - Johnny 5  from Madison, WI says:
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Did some more checking on the Boson question explainations, and it references a book called "Top-Down Network Design" by Cisco Press, 1999. Seems this book covers in detail the Implementation Plan plus the 4 B & T Goals & Contraints, and may be your best bet until the new books come out. I'm not crazy about spending $55 for a book that's 4 years old, but may give this one a try. I'm really itching to get this test over and done with before they change the CCDP exam too.
7/27/03 - Anonymous says:
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How long is the new exam? I checked the exam objective and it said 75mins. Someone mentioned 2 hours!
7/28/03 - Zericho  says:
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Hello friends, I am CCNP/CCNA and today I failed for second time with 816 score. The first time was two months ago with score 795. My opinion is that 640-861 is a very difficult exam, you must have not only necessary knowledge but also to guess properly. anyway... I have to suggest a very good resource for the IPv6 topic, which is "The ABCs of IP version 6" , from Cisco's site. Good luck.
7/29/03 - Becky Nagel  from Editor, CertCities.com says:
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Hi Anonymous -- As far as I know, it is 75 minutes. Perhaps the 2 hours was when it was in beta format?
7/30/03 - Anonymous from somewhere in MD says:
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Took the test this morning and passed. Arrgh...it was a little harder than I thought it would be. Since the new study guide is not out, I had to rely on several study sources. My advice: read the the old DCN book, and do independent research on VoIP, IPv6, and SAFE. There are a lot of questions in those ares. Good luck!
7/31/03 - Anonymous says:
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i took the test yesterday and failed. i did very bad on planning section and that part screwed me very badly. i reviewed VoIP, IPv6, SAFE and some SNMP material. i had case study questions (2 or 3Qs) in the beginning of the test and i thought i wasted a lot of time in those questions. i think i will wait for cisco's official guide to be out and then try to take the test again.
8/11/03 - Uzodike Ebele  from NIGERIA says:
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This is a beautiful review and i wonder why i did not get to this site earlier. Perron397 is right about the new chapters and even using the search engine is not totally helpful. Flunked the first attempt. 806 was not good enough against 825. Had 62 questions in about 1hr25mins. still preparing for 2nd attempt. Please any advice will be very welcome.
8/11/03 - Victor  from New York says:
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A+ Network+ Security+ Server+ MCSD MCSE LPIC RHCE CCSA CCSE CCNA CCDA CCDP CCNP CCIE (Routing & Switching) CCIE (Security) and working on my Solaris Cert..... and VPN specialization First off....I would like to say... If you can't get yourself out of your a$$ and do your research online.... I don't think this is the right field for you.... and for the others who are trying to actually learn something and not deprive the cert... i salute you.... but i think it's unethical and just plain stupid to go and take a test by cheating your way through....If you was to actually "Earn" your certification.... take it from me and from the rest of us who actually try... It's a much greater reward after you have dedicated your time and dedication with studying those lonely nights to "Earn" your cert than it is download TestKings or other cheating material of the like to "Degrade" the value of the Cert. I'm glad that those of you who are in the field and actually know what they are doing is doing the right thing. Good Luck and I hope you all understand the importance of my message and appreciate the value in hard earned certs.
8/11/03 - Anonymous says:
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What? Dude..you don't got a CISSP? Loser.
8/12/03 - Paul Adams  from England says:
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Get a grip Victor, posting massive amounts of letters after your name in a bid to stamp your authority just don't work for me. You don't have any right to judge how people spend their nights revising. I am not saying I necesarilly disagree with you on some issues but some revison methods work better for some than others. One colleague is CCNP, which he got from cisco press alone, yet he knows almost less than CCNA's I have met. Does that make him a cheat for reading the questions and remembering the answers rather than understanding them? Don't preach man, spend some more time on those other letters.... Back to topic, an excellent review which highlights the areas missing from the only available content we have.
8/13/03 - Anonymous says:
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I'm with Paul. Shut up, Poindexter.
8/13/03 - Gerry   from Dallas, Texas says:
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Please see the response I got from Cisco Press below: Thank you for your interest in Cisco Press. As you are aware, the current books on the market are for the old CCDA exam. We are working on updating our books to bring them in line with the new exam. I am sorry for any inconvenience this might cause you. The first of these revisions (CCDA Exam Certification Guide, Second Edition, ISBN: 1587200767) is due to publish in October. The updated DESGN Self-Study Guide (ISBN: 1587051419) is due to publish in November. I guess I am going bookless using this article and my previous fail. Also be aware most testing centers are closed for the Labor Day Holiday which is Sept. 1 - Taking three days off the timeline.
8/13/03 - Victor  from New York says:
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Well Paul your right on that... and maybe I did came off a little to hard...But it's still ones' opinion...the true test is what you can do in the field....but anyway beside the point ... back to the topic, if your really interested in passing your 640-861 your better off picking up Sybex CCDA book has been published for some time now here's the links you will find interesting Book: Sybex CCDA by:Todd Lammle, Andy Barld published: July 2003 Victor: "This book has all of the material you need for the 640-861 exam." ==================== http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2WJB2RLJWW&isbn=0782142001&itm=2#SYN Extra Links: RFC2373 (IPv6 Addressing) victor:"For those of you who don't wish to spend money on the book.... try this it's Very good read on IPv6 for the 640-861" ======================== http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2373.txt Extra Link: "IPv6 Next Generation Overview." Victor:"also another good read for the exam." ========================= http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/INET-IPng-Paper.html#CH12 Extra Link: (IPv6 straight from the horses mouth "on cisco site"). Victor:" Another good read on IPv6 straight from the horses mouth..." ==================== http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/732/Tech/ipv6/ipv6_presentations.shtml Extra Link: "Good read on SAFE Blueprint Architecture" Victor:" I recommend you try downloading there pdf file...very good source of information for the DESGN exam as well." ======================== http://www.cisco.com/en/US/netsol/ns110/ns170/ns171/ns128/networking_solutions_white_paper09186a008009c8b6.shtml Extra Link: "VoIP good read from cisco" victor:" Very good info on VoIP that will help you on the Exam. Download the .PDF file if you like...." ======================== http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/access/sc/rel9/soln/voip20/impl/impdesn.htm Extra Link:"Internetwork Design Guide" victor:" good fundamental stuff on what you will need to know for the exam" ======================= http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/cisintwk/idg4/index.htm these will help you understand the missing parts that the 441 don't cover....If you need any help i will be glad to discuss on any topic you need help with....Good Luck!!!! These articles will help you... Understand the IPv6, SAFE Architecture, and VoIP material.... I know you will do great if you understand these articles....good luck...
8/13/03 - marios  says:
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good help victor, although most of these staff i have already found them... what i miss is any information relevant to this "imlementation plan" and moreover any help on how to differ these "business & technical goals"..
8/14/03 - Ebele  from Nigeria says:
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victor, was totally shocked and upset with your initial reaction. Im CCNA cert and that wasnt bought but like you said its your own opinion. I guess there should be better ways of expressing your self. Well, thanks a lot for those links. Thats practically what ive been searching for on the net with reasonable success on IPv6 but little on VoIP and SAFE Architecture
8/16/03 - CW  from Reston, VA says:
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I failed my CCDA exam today. I am confused on the IPv6 BGP question. Which is true on IPv6 impact for BGP? a) There's a new version of BGP b) THere's no impact on BGP between IPv4 and IPv6. I know M-BGP support IPv6 (read from Cisco IPv6 ABC document) but I either options (a or b) makes sense to me. Any idea? Thanks
8/16/03 - Victor  from New York says:
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Knowing IPv6 and Understanding IPv6 relation to current Routing Protocols are two different topics that you will have to understand in the DESGN exam...that is why IPv4 and IPv6 aren't compatible... BGP4+ is what's used in the IPv6... you will need to understand the NG version of routing protocols for the IPv6... like RIPng, OSPFv3, BGP4+....you must remember that in order to have IPv6 work with IPv4 Routing Protocols,.... you will need to either Translate from IPv6 to IPv4 or have IPv6 encapsulated or tunneled through existing IPv4 Routing Protocols.... that's explained in the cisco documents...MP-BGP is for carrying routing information from other protocols... MP-BGP is an extension to the current BGP protocol, like the NLRI attribute (Network Layer Reachability Info), with AFI which is for Address Family Info, for (AFI / SAFI) multiprotocol extensions. BGP4 was extended to BGP4+ exclusively for the IPv6 Enviornment. IPv6 and IPv4 is concentrated alot on the CCDA because of the Transition cisco has planned in the current and near future...it's unlikely that you will find every network administrator in the world agree at the same time that they will all converge to IPv6... so for now we are stuck with implementing a network where both coexist in such a way that users won't notice that IPv6 is there at all. BGP4+ is exclusively used with IPv6..." With the aid of the new Dynamic DNS Registration Protocol and IPv6's Stateless Autoconfiguration, users can boot up their system after it has been enabled with an IPv6 stack, in addition to its IPv4 stack, and become IPv6-ready without being aware of it at all. The system would automatically be configured with an IPv6 address, have itself registered automatically in the DNS with the host's existing name alongside its new IPv6 address (in addition to its DNS IPv4 address registration), and when finding a remote host with IPv6, start talking IPv6 all this without the user being required to consciously take action. " -- cisco. I think it's cool that we are the guys in charge of a great transition that's taking place in the future of Internetworking Technology...This is the future and Cisco Systems invisions us designers to start understanding the importance of integration of the two because of the great limitations of IPv4. The 6Bone is the IPv6 backbone that was set up to assist in the evolution and deployment of IPv6 in the Internet i hope that helped you with your question "CW" from Reston, VA .... good luck on the next attempt :)
8/18/03 - marios  says:
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hei, not even a line, instead a whole document for Ipv6... :( anyway, anyone knows info about topics related to: i) implementation plan ii) business & technical constraints?
8/18/03 - johnny  says:
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There's a new version of BGP for ip6. sat the exam last month before i got the sybex book. b*****d of an exam. the ccdp exams were easier. but i dont get either certs till i pass this one ccda exam. unfortunatly cisco changed this exam from strictly technical to half technical half b******t rope learning irrelevent managment procedures. oh well. had it been 100% technical i would have passed easily. i got 795 out of 825.. most of the procedural managment questions i just had to guess.. but we all know it has to be the 'CISCO Answer'.. just got the new sybex ccda book so im off to rope learn b*****t management procedures. as for the guy flaming earlier in this chanell.. TROLL ALERT. johnny
8/18/03 - CMango  says:
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*This is for the select few who have put in their time and energy through months of studying the black arts of the CCDA-- only to see the dreaded “FAIL” greet them at the end of the test. Great thread. Seemingly this is a support group for the masses. Time for a poll...how many experienced professionals have absorbed the DESGN course objectives (and dogma) but still do not grasp how exam 640-861 can be considered a valid benchmark for CCDA knowledge? A great BUSINESS GOAL for Cisco would be to actually support the CCDA certification path with material published in a timely manner. Their interpreted lack of interest in the CCDA is shown through the recent CCNA revision. The new CCNA gets you in the door- hence a full scope of newly published materials. In my view, Cisco's main BUSINESS CONSTRAINT is a lack of commitment to its CCDA track. Message: Fortify the CCDA certification’s value- but don’t take the easy way out (through testing on simple yet frustratingly abstract and incomplete 'design' topics). The real-world key to a successful design lies in continual communication with your customer and has little to do with reading a single page. To keep this exam's value (and credibility), Cisco should examine the weighting of questions, push to make the exam more exhaustive through a full range of questions, and at a minimum require completion based items. Could Cisco’s own TECHNICAL CONSTRAINTS be making this difficult? With this said, let this serve as a "welcome" to the new followers of the CCDA track. Cisco's goal for the CCDA is to turn the art of design (and in my case, many years of nuanced experience) into a science measured by a 65 question test. Is this possible? In theory, yes- in practice, no. If Cisco's intent is interpreted through their actions; then in the case of 640-861, Cisco fails to get the required 825 passing score. Note to Cisco: when I pass, you owe me 125 clams.
8/19/03 - Victor  from New York says:
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I'm sure you will do fine CMango.... This just seems like another corporate scandel... It is Cisco's main objective to gain as much profit possible before the cisco press version of the book comes out.... They DESGN'ed the test specifically for the gap between CCDP 640-025 test takers who need the DESGN but notice that the DESGN has s**t loads of techno-gargon crap.... well as far as the planning goes you have to keep in mind basically that you have to have a plan in your design.... according to cisco you need to Prototype the network before you document your full Implementation plan, to be handed off to the engineer after being verified with there verification plan. There is a Method called PDIOOR ..... which stands for (Planning, Design, Implementation, Operation, Optimization, Retirement)....these are different phases you should take into consideration when designing essential networking design decisions.... (Planning -- Is basically the objectives in the network and planning exactly where you will install the network, stuff like, services you will be running and clarifiying fundamental networking requirements.)(Design -- This is basically the network requirements identified in the planning phase in which you will consider any information obtained through discussion with your customer and managers and administrators as well as any data you need to gain through analysis and audits of the existing network....if your upgrading....once you have the design model you can go to implementation plan)(Implementation -- With approved design and any equipment the design requires and all of the testing of the design of the network is done here. You will need to meet the customers requirements in order to have a successful prototype working design.) (Operation -- The operation phase is where the hard work and effort of the design is determined...if you have any weakness it is known at this phase....the network's actual performance levels that are monitored during day-to-day operations supply the info you need for optimization phase)(Optimization -- This is basically the phase where practical network management that's objectively directed toward detecting and fixing out any glitches before they evolve into serious problems...the optimization phase is highly significant because if issues can't be troubleshot effectively the networks' performance breaks down over time...redesigning the network is probably necessary. Major changes in service requirements due to growth or restructugin, etc.... redesigning the network at this phase is essential as you can see. You have to make sure that in the last scenario you have a clear, accurate, picture about the throughput, and responsiveness, and the types and frequency of resources accessed provides an invaluable tool with which to create a new and viable network design.) (Retirement -- Originally not part of the PDIOO process but the retirement of the network or parts of the network is a natural progression in the life cycle of a network...new technology develops and the needs to evolve, all or part of the network often becomes obsolete.... The outdated equipment is then either retired or repositioned somewhere else in the network where the demands on it won't everwhelm it's limited capacity.) You must begin categorizing the customer's current network by gathering data.... To be real, the majority of the networks you will be working with are already set up.... your job is to understand the customers current network in order to understand any customer communicated changes to the existing network.... you gather data into what cisco calls these two categories: Administrative Data and Technical Data Administrative Data -- is basically data that's gathered from company management and includes info such as the companies "business goals, corporate structure, geographic locations, current and future staffing, and policies and politics that will affect the design of a new network".... this info paints a clear picture of the "Corporate environment" and helps identifiy "Business Constraints"...(business issues, not technical issues....) Technical data -- is data gathered from the customer's current network analysis tools like Network Management, SNMP, Protocol Analysers and Profile Baselining, Passwords and User Profiles....etc....it also includes analysis of protocols in use, collision rates, boradcast rates, packet flows, segment utilization, and other network-related issues....(baselining).... What you have to remember is that Administrative Data is what allows you to identify "Business Constraints" that will arise in the Design and Implementation process.... Cisco will Test you on both there categories on the DESGN exam.... Technical Data as the name implies deals with "technical data" has alot more to do with technology than administrative data....it helps you to understand how the custom
8/19/03 - jimmy bam bam  from Florida says:
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I'm beginning to think certs ain't worth jack these days. Example ^ Johnny 5 over here from Madison. I bet you feel really proud you passed the test cheating huh?
8/19/03 - marios  says:
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Victor, thanks for the help! Johnny 5, very good notes, they answer some of the "confusing" questions".. i think they should help
8/21/03 - anonymous  from asia says:
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Do anybody have new pdf file of sybex ccda study guide. As this book is not released in asian countries.
8/21/03 - Victor  from New York says:
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Like i said if you was to look at the root of the site you will find the 640-861 version 6 which is the latest one out..... try www.net130.com <-------- you will find it there ..... if you was to take a better look you would see that it's there....
8/21/03 - gerry  from texas says:
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Can someone please answer the following - At what layer of the hierarchical design model do remote offices connect to? I have seen remote offices mentioned in all three areas depending on the document or book you are reading?
8/21/03 - Anonymous says:
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From the Cisco Internetwork Design Guide: Distribution: In the non-campus environment, the distribution layer, etc. can also be the point at which remote sites access the corporate network. Access: In the non-campus environment, the access layer can give remote sites access to the corporate network via some wide-area technology, such as Frame Relay, ISDN, or leased lines. What about the Campus Design?
8/21/03 - Victor  from New York says:
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Question 100: Right Answer: ( D. Each step should detail roll-back guidelines in case of failure ) Wrong Answer: (A...( each step doesn't necessarily need to carry out a number of phases)), B, C ...(both are wrong answers because you don't need to document prerequisites for each step, and the implementation plan should be made in a way that the designer shouldn't be present). Implementation Plan: - Include backout plan for each step - Designer need not be present - Each step should include: 1. Description of objective 2. Detailed guidelines 3. Reference to Design Document
8/21/03 - Victor  from New York says:
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Gerry from Texas .... the Core -- is for Speed and Redundancy is taken to consideration... this is where all of the Distribution Layers connect and basically you can think of each Distribution Router within the Layer as a "Remote Location" , the Access Layer is where the Workstations of that "Remote Location", and workgroups reside, Physical Security issues arise here as well as Security issues on the Distribution Layer .... like ACL's, packet filtering, QoS, and queuing... The 3 Layer Hierarchy network design is for Small Sized - to - Medium Sized Enterprise Solutions.... for Large Size you will need to break each complex components into subcomponents called Modules which is where ECN comes in (Enterprise Composite Network) Model.... that's where you have the 3 functional areas (1. Enterprise Campus 2. Enterprise Edge 3. Service Provider Edge ).... i hope that answered your question.
8/21/03 - Gerry  from Texas says:
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That answers it - and thanks for all of your help, links and questions answered. I appreciate the help.
8/21/03 - anonymous   from asia says:
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thanks victor for ur referenve link that will definately help me but i would like to read book first then will go for testking . Do u know any other site where i can get sybex soft copy.
8/21/03 - Gerry  from Texas says:
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One question on voice: What are the reasons a VoIP would go off-net earlier than designed? I know the user issued access code and the remote voice gateway sending a busy-back signal, but will it also do this for the following? - Local voice-gateway detects lack of WAN bandwidth - Local call manager server is too busy to process the call
8/21/03 - Victor  from New York says:
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Question 102. Routing Protocol Supporting VLSM Answer: (A.RIPv2,B.OSPF,D.EIGRP,F.BGP)....(All support VLSM) Question 103. (Choose Two)Answer:( B.Network Management Module, D.Server Farm Module)-- Enterprise Campus functional area of the Enterprise Composite Network Model (ECN) Question 105. (Choose Two) Answer: (D. more accurate test results, E. more flexible test enviornment )
8/22/03 - hooligan  says:
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QUESTION NO: 105 What are two reasons to use a prototype network instead of a pilot network when testing a network redesign? (Choose two) A. cheaper to implement B. doesn't impact a live network C. more modeling tools available D. more accurate test results E. more flexible test environment Im going to dissagree with Victor and say A and B.
8/22/03 - hooligan  says:
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shepardos, how many q'd did you get from tk v6? cheers
8/22/03 - Victor  from New York says:
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hooligan....that is the wrong answer, reason is that your comparing prototype and pilot , not the over all objective of the pre-design process... the answers (A. cheaper to implement and B. doesn't impact a live network) are wrong answers....first of all it sure isn't cheaper to implement prototype then pilot .... pilot is much cheaper...and secondly B. , prototype can impact a live network especially when your migrating your design into the network, but the real reason is that the question asks "what are two reasons to use a prototype network instead of a pilot network?"....<------ key thing there your comparing the two and obviously they both will affect the end result to your design and will determine if they will reach your customers need
8/22/03 - Shepardos  from Germany says:
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All the Question which I post was in my exam!!!!!
8/22/03 - hooligan  says:
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yeah, your right about Q.105 victor. thx for your time
8/24/03 - Victor  from New York says:
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No problem hooligan....if you have anymore questions you would like to ask i would be glad to answer.... :)
8/24/03 - hooligan  says:
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im not sure if anyone else is havign trouble finding resources for answers for these questions. todd lamelles book is ambiguous. this is the first time i havnt been able to find specific answers. every resouce i can find has vaigue conflicting answers. i you definatly know the answers then please help me out. thx. hooligan. ATTN: HOOLIGAN: I have to delete your question posts because we don't allow posting of actual questions here, with or without answers. Please contact me at [email protected] if you have any questions about this. Thank you -- Becky Nagel, Editor, CertCities.com
8/25/03 - Gerry  from Texas says:
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Passed today with a 860 (35 points over the limit). This is the most ambiguous test I have ever taken. I do not know what questions I wissed because they were all familiar. Good Luck on this one. All I can say is if these are the "New" Cisco tests then they are not testing on hands-on exeperience but test taking experience.
8/27/03 - CMango  says:
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In response to the issue of routing protocols and VLSM support. BGP does NOT support VLSM-- it supports CIDR. There is a difference in that one (VLSM) supports discontiguous subnetting and the other (CIDR) does not.
8/28/03 - beth  says:
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I have the CCNA and CCNP, i failed the CCDA this week with 795. i used the old ccda books and the new sybex ccda book, which did not cover IPv6 in enough detail. I scored badly on the planning section, i am now using the planning guide from this site and the top down network design book and TCP/IP v 2 which just arrived and will take the exam again this weekend. Thanks for the review i wish i had found this site before the exam.
Exam Difficulty Rating Key
5 stars - true gurus only true gurus only
4 stars - very difficult very difficult
3 stars - difficult, but manageable difficult, but manageable
2 stars - somewhat challeging somewhat challeging
1 star - cakewalk cakewalk
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