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ITT SUCKS

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Printed Date: 20 April 2014 at 9:55pm


Topic: ITT SUCKS

Posted by: garyr
Subject: ITT SUCKS
Date Posted: 27 April 2004 at 9:46am

ITT Tech is a joke. A complete waste of time. The teachers did not what they were teaching at all. In matter of fact a teacher of mine said "They wanted me to teach tech classes and I am a economics teacher, they said it didint matter, just give the students a lab and let them mess around for the remainder of the peiod" another one of my teachers stated on the first day of class "I dont know anyhting about this subject, I am going to be learning with you". The picture I got was students with financial aid were better of passing, almost guaranteed. I paid cash for the school, I took 2 quarters of in pursuit of a better career. Collectors called me to collect my remaining balance of $1600 dollars, I paid for my entire schooling cash...so, doesnt that sound un professional. Itt tech was a dissapointment, I feel like I wasted time and money. In matter of fact many tech pro's stated they would never hire an Itt tech student.


Replies:

Posted by: garyr
Date Posted: 27 April 2004 at 11:29am

I did not really know about ITT's rep before I started going to school there. I was pressured to pick a school right out of high school. I am not very happy with my experiance there, nor do i think that ITT should be able to be run the way it is. Obviously people are begining to realize that the school is a joke. The entire staff is misleading, over exagerating the effect of experiance the school will give you in the field of your choice. I am very happy with my current career completely out of the tech field. So, the effect of schooling at ITT didint effect me. I also did not document the instances of my instructors statements, I do know who was present. What would come of my complaints anyway?



Posted by: garyr
Date Posted: 28 April 2004 at 10:44am

I understand your reply. I have 3 more courses to attend at ITT. I do enjoy technology, I do use my skills I have learned in and out of school. I did help implement my current network at my mortgage office. I am here because I thought I could give some insight on my experiance at ITT tech. Gives some advice to people thinking about
going to a tech school. I also have a web sight called www.nitroloans.com. I appreciate your advice, plus its nice to know that admins of a sight actually respond. Good job. Check my sight out and give some oppinions, still in the making though.



Posted by: Decipher
Date Posted: 28 April 2004 at 10:56am

Well, wildcat_dude, at least garyr hasn't asked us for homework help.....welcome aboard garyr.

Decipher



Posted by: garyr
Date Posted: 28 April 2004 at 10:59am

well i am having a problem with some homework. JK



Posted by: rflemen
Date Posted: 28 April 2004 at 11:07am

hehe...post some code and we'll be happy to ignore you.



JUST KIDDING.....

Welcome aboard and thanks for sharing your experiences garyr.

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-rob



Posted by: Andy
Date Posted: 01 June 2004 at 12:38pm

I went to school here in June 2000-2002. I agree with a lot of the comments made. I regret going to this school and I feel that is was a mistake going there. I think in a way the school was a joke. There were few professional teachers there. It was more like high school then an actual "college" I would not advise anyone to go to this school. Really look around before you jump.

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Andy, Network Student



Posted by: hs6789
Date Posted: 24 June 2004 at 4:11pm

How about the representative do you ever see them? It's like they are there for a month then there gone.



Posted by: garyr
Date Posted: 24 June 2004 at 6:17pm

Most of the reps that were there when i started were gone after only a few monthes. It may be because they lied about allot of things to do with transfer of credits, and other things to do with employment. Most of my fellow classmates were lied to about a variety of things.



Posted by: hs6789
Date Posted: 25 June 2004 at 2:41pm

I did some research on them and I found out we are a number. If they don't meet there number they are gone. What do you think about these information?

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together



Posted by: WMolina
Date Posted: 25 June 2004 at 4:34pm

Heh.. and I always thought ITT Tech was one of the better IT schools. The stuff about not learning anything sounds an awful lot like my college.. they barely teach anything because half the computers never work, and I have absolutely no faith in the school being able to find me a job.

Shame about ITT, though.. at one time I was considering going there because I heard it was one of the top schools. Good thing I didn't, huh?

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Wayne
A+



Posted by: hs6789
Date Posted: 25 June 2004 at 7:17pm

I did some research on them and I found out we are a number. If they don't meet there number they are gone. What do you think about these information?



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together



Posted by: garyr
Date Posted: 28 June 2004 at 11:17am

You know I really regret going. ITT is like a really bed buisness that is actually conning students into going. It is sad that many students do not know what they are going to experiance and think it will be a great move for them. I am in a a tottaly different industry now so I just think I could have spent my money more wisely.



Posted by: zSteve
Date Posted: 28 June 2004 at 9:30pm

Okay - hows it going. well I have to say that all of you have had bad experiences at ITT. Now let me tell you about mine. My name is Steve i am 29 years old I am a Product Designer @ Fisher Price. I got my associate in computer aided drafting. I then Recieved My Bachelor in Industrial Design. I make about 65,000 a year. I actually am really satisfied with my eduaction @ ittt. I am Currently Worknig on my Master's in Business Administration / Technonlogy Management From University of Phoenix. What i think it is you probably chose the wrong field. CAD was the best way for me if i would have chose electronics i would have been probably complaing just as the rest of you. The truth is if i hadent of gone to Itt i would not be were i am at today.

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zsteve



Posted by: garyr
Date Posted: 29 June 2004 at 10:40am

yes, I did choose the wrong field. that is great that you are doing so well. I am a senior account exec at a mortgage company making well over 100k a year, I did not use my education to work my way up. I am happy in what i do and I am only 22.



Posted by: MCSEGeek
Date Posted: 30 June 2004 at 3:55am

A few years back I took a tour of the local campus here.......after about 30 minutes I left. Just wasn't that impressed.

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The Geek
"If time travel were possible, I'd go back and choose NOT to attend SCD"



Posted by: Decipher
Date Posted: 30 June 2004 at 4:54am

I need a bigger paddle, the murky river is getting kind of deep in here.



Posted by: THEONE
Date Posted: 08 July 2004 at 11:34pm

I have read a lot of your comments about ITT. I have experienced an education at ITT first all you have to bring something to the table in order to sit down and eat. I have red a lot of complaining which reveals to me a negative energy from within. Most of you probably could complain about anything. I have a had a challenging education at ITT and the experience showed what I really could learn, I was part of the Electronics program and it was tough but anything worth having is worth working for. I know a lot and I obtained 3 certs through ITT, so maybe the fault should start with the man in the mirror. In order to have drive, you must have desire and that comes from within.

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THE ONE TO KNOW



Posted by: '92ITT
Date Posted: 09 July 2004 at 7:26am

I don't think we are complaining about not being able to recieve an education, or not being taught...at least I'm not. It is the deception and the twisting and the lies that they told us to get us to go to ITT and to stay at ITT and that is what the MAJOR complaint is with me!



Posted by: roadrash
Date Posted: 09 July 2004 at 8:48am

I am really glad I found this post. I was considering going to ITT, but when this many people complain about this school, there is something definetely wrong. I wonder how it even stays in business. Maybe with the economy being in a rut everyone is trying to upgrade their skills to help them get a job and people are getting desparate. I know I was.




Posted by: mandyrs
Date Posted: 20 July 2004 at 11:43am

ITT stands for It Takes Time......
First off the books that they are using for ITT suck, they are the crappiest 1300 dollar books ever. They used to use real books (Microsoft), that is about as real as it gets sometimes, but they stopped using these and got a monkey to make the NIIT books... THe information in them is ridiculous. The labs dont make sense, and they are missing critical information. Most of the teachers at my campus are pretty cool, they know their stuff so I am learning something. And btw on credit transfers it depends on what state you live in on how credits transfer. Texas----no credits from a 2 year school will transfer to a 4 year school period...And you can blame UT for that...



Posted by: port
Date Posted: 24 July 2004 at 5:28pm

ITT TECH came to my high school and made fun of people
who make low wages

My friend went to ITT TECH and GOT himself a two year degree in Networking.
He didn't know what Cisco is or MCSC and still works at
a low paying job before and after going to ITT TECH.

ITT TECH has money in Stock Market.
I go to Portland State University, and i have learned
that to get rich, people invest in STOCK MARKET.
Portland State University doesn't have a DIME in STOCK MARKET.

-------------
rr



Posted by: kevinr
Date Posted: 19 September 2004 at 6:00pm

I graduated from ITT in '96 with a bachelor's and got a job in the field before I graduated. I feel like my education was challenging and rewarding.

Today, I'm making significantly more than all my friends who got 4 year degrees from CU-Boulder! But, they were attending parties while I was working full time and attending school full time. (Yes, I missed out on that "university campus experience", but that's a whole other discussion).

My point is, YOU GET OUT OF IT WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.

I think one thing that ITT may certainly be guilty of is allowing their prospective students to believe that attending ITT is the end all answer to their career woes. It definitely is NOT. But name any school that can guarantee that.

IMO, the knowledge and opportunity to learn are there at ITT, but some may have to work harder to obtain it. I believe that the ITT environment that I attended provided me the one, most important thing that continues to help throughout anyones career... the skill of How to Learn.

No matter how many facts you memorize in school, in the technical field, if you can't keep learning, you WILL fall behind.

The one thing that baffles me is that from 1993-1996, I paid about 20k for a bachelor's degree at ITT. Is it true that people are paying 32k for an Associates degree today?!? Ouch! How times have changed.

Best wishes,

KevinR
Network & Telecommunications Engineer



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 19 September 2004 at 8:09pm

I paid about $8-$10K for a Bachelor's degree from MTSU from '93 to '97. It all depends on where you go.

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MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: port
Date Posted: 11 October 2004 at 12:45pm

If a ITT Tech is charging so much for their education,
I think they should be regionally accredited also so that students can transfer to other colleges.

DONT JUST MAKE PROFIT>>>>>
\rr

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rr



Posted by: JPDLS
Date Posted: 24 January 2005 at 6:44pm

ITT Tech sucks horribly i've attended for 1 year and 7 months im about to graduate half the kids in my class dont even know were to find something theyve downloaded and these are supposed to be tech professionals i learned nothing from itt and made the horrible mistake of being a college work study working for the school ive seen how everything works behind the scenes and it aint pretty and questions feel free to email me id rather give up all my credits than stay here.

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Worthless Nobody...More worthless than ever



Posted by: Certifyable
Date Posted: 25 January 2005 at 1:47pm

I was offered a PT teaching position at an ITT site and turned it down for the following reasons:

Pay was lower than Community College pay (but tuition was at least 6x higher for students).

The textbook was a joke. Done internal and full of unnecessary information.

The only way I can see a student attending an ITT site is because they didn't shop around. Last I checked 2yr degrees cost $20K at ITT and most students end up with loans.



Posted by: rrwin
Date Posted: 11 February 2005 at 10:04pm

Are all Tech Colleges joke, or is it just ITT TECH?

Which private tech Colleges are for real?


Do ITT Tech still run their TV ad?



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 12 February 2005 at 3:58am

rrwin wrote:
Are all Tech Colleges joke, or is it just ITT TECH?

Which private tech Colleges are for real?


Do ITT Tech still run their TV ad?


Depends on the instructors.

And yes, ITT still runs their ads.

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MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: ITTStudent
Date Posted: 14 February 2005 at 7:00am

I'm an ITT Student. In fact I'm at school right now. I attend the Younstown, Ohio campus and I'm pretty disapointed in my education so far. I'm a 6th quarter student about to go into my 7th quarter and I haven't learned too much. ITT doesn't care if your as dumb as a brick, as long as you have 30 grand (student loans) then your good enough for them. This hurts the other students because so much time is wasted trying to teach the stupid students how to create a new folder on their desktop because they don't get it. All the other students are held back and prevented from learning new things. The NIIT books are a serious joke but their finally switching to new books starting in March 2005. The NIIT books were a good example of how ITT is more concerned with profit then providing a real education. I'm in Web Development and their still teaching us classic asp. Why? asp.net is 4 years old. I thought you were supposed to stay up with the technology in this field. The reason so many students are mad at ITT is becuase they have invested so much money into a two year degree. I hope I can get a job when I graduate because I don't know how I'll be paying off these student loans if I don't.



Posted by: 1dwn5up
Date Posted: 27 March 2005 at 4:37pm

i just started ITT 6months ago is it realy a waste of time? i am a 30 yr old male trying to start a career with some type of future love electronics,wiring,and technology.i am using finacial aid of course do i get out now or take the ride and see were i end up.currently employed using cnc routers for r/d in marine industry.like my job just want more

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1dwn5up



Posted by: wil30nayr
Date Posted: 28 March 2005 at 1:32pm

This reply is for "all" members who respond to complaints posted about ITT Technical Institute by putting the blame on the students and giving opinions about something they obviously know nothing about. I graduated second in my class over two years ago and have given up on any ideas of ever working in the IT field, so let's get one thing straight right from the start. ITT Technical Institute has knowingly given false information to every student it ever enrolled. It doesn't matter if the student graduated or not, and it doesn't matter if the student found employment in the IT field or not. The answer to either one of these questions does not change the facts. If you can't see the truth after all the complaints then you are in fact a "true" moron. Keeping that in mind, I will attempt to put the context of the complaints into a form that even a "moron" should be able to understand. The complaint "is not" that ITT promised to find anyone a job (we can do that ourselves). What ITT did promise was that we would be given the skills that were "in demand" so that we would have no problem finding a job for ourself.   The only problem (and its a big one)is that what ITT considers a skill that is "in demand" is the farthest thing from the truth in reality. It's been a hard lesson for all of us and has ruined the lives of some students. The facts are in and the truth of the matter is that ITT "does suck" and their only objective is to prey on the people that come to them looking for the one and only thing they know will make them a success and improve their life, an education. The students "do not" come to ITT asking to be lied to and mis-informed, they come with a genuine desire to get educated in the IT field having no idea how they are about to get screwed. By the time the students figure out how wrong everything is, for most of them it is too late and they are in debt for loans that will take the rest of their life to pay for simply because no-one wants to hire them because they are still "un-educated" and forced to work the same kind of low paying jobs the had to begin with. So do us all a favor, unless youv'e actually been enrolled at ITT and experienced the lies and bullsh*t, keep your mouth shut and your opinions to yourself! Those of us who "have" experienced the nightmare of ITT really don't care about how smart and informed you obviously want us to think you are. Save your idiotic replies for something you actually know about! DW



Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 28 March 2005 at 6:00pm

wil30nayr:
I love how the people who didnít go to ITT are the morons; from your post it seems you ITT grads are the MORONS. After all you are the dumb A** that was too foolish to do some basic research and signed a contract for $30,000 to get an AS degree. I ask who in their right mind spends that kind of money without shopping around?
You brag about how you graduated 2nd in your class and you canít find a job, poor baby there are a lot of IT professionals out of work at the moment quit bi**ing and crying about how ITT failed you and go find a job. I have worked with ITT grads, both at NASA and Northrop, and they seem to know their stuff; to my knowledge there has never been an issue with an ITT grad at work.
I think the reasons people bit** at you ITT complainers so much is because if you would spend as much time learning new skills and job hunting as you do crying then you would have a job.

I do agree with you that with all the complaints someone should really think before going to ITT but just because youíre a MORON donít get made at the rest of us for laughing at you.


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mike



Posted by: dondonut
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 10:00am

Port... (Unprofessional, abusive and etc. post heavily edited by moderator. See below. And do NOT make me come back here)

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Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 10:15am

Ok ok, calm down folks, geez, no need to resort to name calling and such. Yes its obvious (at least to me) that Port is younger than he lets on to be, but I don't see where his/her's sexual preferences have anything to do with ITT or feelings about it.

Actually, its not a bad idea checking colleges out early on, it helps weed out those that don't fit your style (or costs). He says he goes to Portland State (or something like that) but again that has nothing to do with ITT (kinda like fluff in an exam, a distractor). Fact remains his/her opinion of ITT Tech is negative and your attacking Port personally is not in compliance of forum rules (which you may not have read yet), so lighten up and edit your post a bit would help keep you on the right side



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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: theMightyK
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 12:47pm

Hey WD, thanks for hosing things down a bit. You're a sweetie.

Dondonut, you may have noticed I very heavily edited your post (which, among other things, was VERY childish and suffered from serious grammar and spelling issues, so let us not get into who's 12 years old here, K). This is your first post, so I'm not going to touch your posting privileges at this time. Please try to engage the brain first before posting again.



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--Karen



Posted by: DoCCoS
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 1:19pm

I grduated ITT in Sept of 2004. They supposedly got me a job at a large pharmacuetical firm. In fact they promised me the job. Here I am 6 months later calling career services every week just to remind them I am here. I just got a "Talking to" because I'm upset that after 8 months they haven't found me a job. Maybe thats because this school is a complete scam, you might as well go to the library five hours a day for three days a week and study for yourself. I was told that my schedule wouldn't change (Lie), that my credits would have no problem tranferring (Lie), that caree services has a 98% in the field placement (Lie, I bet they don't even have a 98% any field placement record). Once I complained about our schedule and had every student in the class sign the complaint. They "invited" me to a meeting, where they had each one of my instructors and my records with them and tried to bully me, saying that the other students signed the complaint because they felt bad for me. They even disclosed a fellow students grades to me without his explicit permission. I would like to pose that whenever any of us sees one of those f**kin ads on TV we call the number and let them know just how dissapointed we are with the entire organization. If you see three ads call three times, if you see one in the middle of the night call in the middle of the night, LET THEM KNOW (or at least f**k with their heads). If anyone would like to protest this place in michigan post a reply, now is not the time to just bitch about it, make their lives a living hell!!!!!!!



Posted by: dondonut
Date Posted: 04 May 2005 at 5:12pm

couple things. First, you can't just expect ITT to find you a job, and they don't promise you a position at someone elses company? ITT will gladly help you find a job using their company connection, but YOU are still the one that is getting hired. You really just sat around for 8 months on your lazy ass and waited for them to get you a job? How about instead of calling them 6 times a day, you get out of your chair and call for interviews? Also, where exactly did ITT tell you their credits would transfer? To a university? ITT's classes are trade school classes, which means they are nothing like a universities classes. Did you notice that you where only in classes half as long as a university students? (Thats one quarter, not a semester. Just so your following along) They also go by your grades. Judging by the fact that you sat around for 8 MONTHS, I'm thinking you probable didn't do to much homework. You know what I mean?



Posted by: itt2
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 6:03pm

For all the poeple who said ITT sucks. how many of you made it all they way through. im going there right now finishing up a 2 year network degree, and going for 2 more. and i must say it is pretty frustrating with the quality of books and education. but when i think about the big picture, i do know a lot more about computers than if i never went. not that i learned it all at school but because as someone else here said "you get what u put into it." and after getting a job i realized it doesnt matter what school your in, with the IT field the way it is there is no way to teach real world situations, and i think ITT prepaired me for that really well (not in a good way, but they did). And ive met a few of those Uof people and they only reason why they have a job is because they went to school and trust me its now cause they actually know something( some of these guys dont know how to use the device manager). anyways dont whine cause its not working miracales for you.



Posted by: prdemon
Date Posted: 13 June 2005 at 9:10am

wow i was on my way out the door to sign up at ITT before i did a search and came across this forum. Now im kinda confused as to wich school to go to.Iv'e decided to get my cert's (wich i was going to do anyways on top of a degree)but im stuck on picking a school, i live in cali and have no "real world exp." im studying for my A+ right now and im glad i came acrross this post before i dropped 37,000 at ITT. i did one quarter at ITT and dont know how much i owe. well im off to look for another school.



Posted by: manny
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 2:29pm

One teacher gave us the study guide 5 minutes before we took the final. Guess what?? The final and the study guide were exactly in the same order. **wink wink nod nod**

One teacher gave us a couple stapled papers every morning on how to setup Microsoft 2000 server. The teacher may have spent a total of 15 minutes in the 11 week quarter actually teaching us. It got to the point where I thought we may be configuring computers that ITT would sell to some business.

I realized a little over half way through my schooling that ITT was a joke but I had two options: 1)Quit with a $15,000 debt over my head with nothing to show for it phyisically, 2)Stay with a $30,000 debt over my head with a sheet of paper I can show around. I stayed, or should I say staying because I'm still at ITT. Maybe an employer may be as dumb as I was and hire an ITT student. I wouldn't hire an ITT student if I were an employer. Everything I know about computers I learned off the internet - ITT can't claim credit for that. Usually I research things before I make a purchase, but I didn't with ITT, regretfully. Bought into that pie in the sky "American Dream" of a school education being the key: False Advertisement. I guess something good came out the whole deal, I don't look down on people like I once did. Drug dealers, con-men, politicians, higher education...hey it's all about making money, to hell with "right" and "wrong". No one sympathizes when you get screwed over when doing the "right thing" so you have to do what you gotta do. ITT has $30,000 that they don't deserve, I'll have to find a way to pay the loan company back.

Life: Are you on top or are you on the bottom?



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 6:05pm

to hell with right or wrong? So you haven't learned anything yet have you.

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 8:53pm

manny wrote:
One teacher gave us the study guide 5 minutes before we took the final. Guess what?? The final and the study guide were exactly in the same order. **wink wink nod nod**

One teacher gave us a couple stapled papers every morning on how to setup Microsoft 2000 server. The teacher may have spent a total of 15 minutes in the 11 week quarter actually teaching us. It got to the point where I thought we may be configuring computers that ITT would sell to some business.

I realized a little over half way through my schooling that ITT was a joke but I had two options: 1)Quit with a $15,000 debt over my head with nothing to show for it phyisically, 2)Stay with a $30,000 debt over my head with a sheet of paper I can show around. I stayed, or should I say staying because I'm still at ITT. Maybe an employer may be as dumb as I was and hire an ITT student. I wouldn't hire an ITT student if I were an employer. Everything I know about computers I learned off the internet - ITT can't claim credit for that. Usually I research things before I make a purchase, but I didn't with ITT, regretfully. Bought into that pie in the sky "American Dream" of a school education being the key: False Advertisement. I guess something good came out the whole deal, I don't look down on people like I once did. Drug dealers, con-men, politicians, higher education...hey it's all about making money, to hell with "right" and "wrong". No one sympathizes when you get screwed over when doing the "right thing" so you have to do what you gotta do. ITT has $30,000 that they don't deserve, I'll have to find a way to pay the loan company back.

Life: Are you on top or are you on the bottom?


Betcha didn't learn anything by getting the study guide that way, didja? **wink wink nod nod eyeroll**

I'm on top because I know the difference between right and wrong, and more importantly, good and evil. In 30 years, you'll either look back on these comments about "It's all about making money" and say, "Man, I was completely wrong," or you'll be just another lost soul. I hope you someday reevaluate things so that money isn't the driving force in your life. I wish you the best of luck.

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MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: rrosenkoetter
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 9:39pm

I realized a little over half way through my schooling that ITT was a joke but I had two options: 1)Quit with a $15,000 debt over my head with nothing to show for it phyisically, 2)Stay with a $30,000 debt over my head with a sheet of paper I can show around.

So... what you're saying is... after spending $15,000 and learning NOTHING... you decided to spend another $15,000... on MORE NOTHING...

You could have spent $5,000 (or less) at a local community college, got that same piece of paper (Associate's degree, correct?) AND LEARNED SOMETHING (That's an important part of education, don't you think?)

It's not particularly amazing that you were duped to begin with... but to continue on after you figured it out... instead of trying to research other options... wow...


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Ron Rosenkoetter
MCSE (NT 4.0, 2000, 2003)



Posted by: xnderocks!!!
Date Posted: 20 June 2005 at 9:57pm

Previous comment about not hiring an ITT student is somewhat extreme. Being pissed off about ITT is one thing but making a blanket statement about their students is wrong. ITT graduates deserve a break.



Posted by: rrwin
Date Posted: 20 June 2005 at 11:58pm

Are you one of the ITT TECH graduates Xnderocks?



Posted by: David522
Date Posted: 21 June 2005 at 5:04am

I recently started ITT Tech myself and just now in my 2nd week. So far from what I have seen I can only relate to what one person has said here, the part about the teachers spend time helping the ones that donít even know how to do simple things. (as in copy a few lines of a txt and paste it into word or notepad) But I have looked around in the book and some stuff I already know some I donít and I figured I will stick around and see what I get out of it.

I have known a few people that have gone to ITT and liked it and have decent jobs from it. The guy who posted the complaint about them not finding him a job has either misunderstood them or just expects too much. I donít know of any tech school that will guarantee you a job when you grad.

Also what I have found to be true is a lot of people will jump on the "lets bash ITT Tech wagon" and have not been a student themselves. It's one thing to bash them if you were a student and have your opinion and another to bash them if you have only "heard" from "your best friend" that ITT sucks.

But I didn't post any of this to offend anyone I just posted it to express my opinions.



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 21 June 2005 at 7:20am

It still doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that on one hand you pay 25-35 grand for a "tech" school and nobody should be guaranting a job anyways and paying a community college 3-5 grand for the same degree and the vast majority of them will have their credits accepted by a larger university.

But hey, if you want to stay in debt, I won't restrain you from doing so

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 21 June 2005 at 1:57pm

David522 wrote:
I recently started ITT Tech myself and just now in my 2nd week. So far from what I have seen I can only relate to what one person has said here, the part about the teachers spend time helping the ones that donít even know how to do simple things. (as in copy a few lines of a txt and paste it into word or notepad) But I have looked around in the book and some stuff I already know some I donít and I figured I will stick around and see what I get out of it.


The same stuff you'd get out of it if you were to read the book (and, hopefully, do the labs) on your own. ;)

David522 wrote:
I have known a few people that have gone to ITT and liked it and have decent jobs from it. The guy who posted the complaint about them not finding him a job has either misunderstood them or just expects too much. I donít know of any tech school that will guarantee you a job when you grad.


At least you're looking at this from a healthy, logical perspective. You are correct; there is no way that a school can guarantee you a job unless they have the actual job right there in the school ready to offer you. Besides, "guaranteeing a job" is a loose term... after all, they could offer you a 1-hour a week job... they could offer you a job making $14,000 a year for a 40-hour week... they could offer you a job and then let you go after 7 days... there's any number of ways out of a "job guarantee" for these places.

Do what you're already doing, and don't believe any of it. Take the education for what it is and run with it.

David522 wrote:
Also what I have found to be true is a lot of people will jump on the "lets bash ITT Tech wagon" and have not been a student themselves. It's one thing to bash them if you were a student and have your opinion and another to bash them if you have only "heard" from "your best friend" that ITT sucks.

But I didn't post any of this to offend anyone I just posted it to express my opinions.


Doesn't matter if they've been students or not. Some of these people are employers who interview (and employ) ITT graduates; thus, it behooves you to listen to what their opinions are, whether you think they are just and rational or unjust and irrational. Their opinions matter to your career because they are the ones who will hire you or not based on what you put on your resume... again, justified or not, and rational or not.

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MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: David522
Date Posted: 21 June 2005 at 3:28pm

[/QUOTE=TranscenderMike]

Doesn't matter if they've been students or not. Some of these people are employers who interview (and employ) ITT graduates; thus, it behooves you to listen to what their opinions are, whether you think they are just and rational or unjust and irrational. Their opinions matter to your career because they are the ones who will hire you or not based on what you put on your resume... again, justified or not, and rational or not.[/QUOTE]

Well when I read something that seems to be irrational doesn’t make me think of them as an employer. Now if they gave examples of a guy they worked with that was hired by them they could go into detail why they thought that person wasn’t qualified for the position he had.

But it’s also been my experience that most employers will give the person being interviewed some kind of test in order to prove himself.

In my opinion if an employer hires an IT guy with out giving him some kind of test they are just taking a risk that they person they hired isn’t just book smart.



Posted by: xnderocks!!!
Date Posted: 21 June 2005 at 9:57pm

rrwin wrote:
Are you one of the ITT TECH graduates Xnderocks?


garyr started the thread with ITT Sucks, not ITT students suck. Even if there are schools that have problems, the students who attend these organizations deserve a baseline civil courtesy. I graduated from one of the top three engineering school in US but I still do this day have no opinion of the school and its program.

As Wildcat said, you run with what you got out of the school. I whole-heartedly agree with his insight.



Posted by: rrwin
Date Posted: 21 June 2005 at 11:50pm

Xnderocks,

May I know what one of the top school did you go and are graduate of?

Do you think ITT TECH is a scam, money making business?

If the answer is YES, then how come they are in this fake business in The United States of America?

Your answers may help all of us who checks out this link for the night mare colleges results and answers.Xnderocks



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 22 June 2005 at 4:31am

There are more companies than you know of that use this same tactic. While technically legal by law, the tactics used to assure these companies candidates leaves a lot to be desired. Did you not really read the contents of this particular thread?

ITT still has federal auditors who have been reviewing their books but it still falls onto the people themselves to know the what are they getting for these high price loans they take out. It's just that pure and simple.

Think of it as a high pressure used car salesman, you buy what you think is a very good car and take it home. A week or a month later it messes up and you now want out of the car, too bad you learn the warranty isn't in force anymore and you're now stuck with loan on that car.

Meanwhile another one, buying a car at the same time ends up driving that car a very long time and he's happy with it.

So what does that mean you ask. Maybe something, maybe nothing.

But I've been to these so called employment mills who offer training if you take out a 3-5 grand loan for a few weeks of training and they guarantee you a job. So I quizzed them on these guaranteed jobs and I wanted specifics. That made them as nervous as a cat with a tail under grandma's rocking chair. The more questions I asked and didn't get specific answers to the more I asked until they finally said, "are you going to sign up today", and I said "are you giving me a job today cause I can't pay for it without an income" and under my breath calling them dumbas*ses.

I thought at the time I was desparate for a job but I know I wasn't that damn desparate to go further in debt on a so called job training program. I found it amazing how many companies started coming out of the woodwork with these same type of offers.

So my opinion is, 90% of these types of companies are nothing more than scams, they just want your money. After all, we're a capitalist country. Look at a lot of the companies today. You'd be a very lucky individual to find a company to work for until you retire today, and its only going to get worse in my opinion.

-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: xnderocks!!!
Date Posted: 22 June 2005 at 9:17am

rrwin wrote:
Xnderocks,

May I know what one of the top school did you go and are graduate of?

Do you think ITT TECH is a scam, money making business?

If the answer is YES, then how come they are in this fake business in The United States of America?

Your answers may help all of us who checks out this link for the night mare colleges results and answers.Xnderocks


What Wildcat did is what everyone else should have done: Ask questions to test their claims and possibly get it in writing.

I feel for those who initially extended their trust to be part of ITT Tech. This includes students, instructors and administrators.

I remember a police officer who said that criminals prey on "easy meals," meaning if anyone advertises himself as an easy meal, surely no criminally-inclined person or organization would refuse the offer.

For example, seven years ago I was stiffed $10,000 in a mortgage transaction because I neglected to ask the basic questions.

If my linux-support company takes off next year, I plan to give the graduates of ITT Tech the same respect and courtesy they deserve as those from universities and 4-year colleges. Those who pass the rigorous hands-on linux & wintel tests will be hired into the company.



Posted by: rrwin
Date Posted: 22 June 2005 at 2:12pm

I think we should get rid of fake business, fake leaders, lies, Corruption schools like ITT Tech.

If USA can put Saddam Hussen in Iraq Jail, so can ITT TECH, Enron, Enclone, and so many other jerks should be in USA Jail.

ITT TECH is like oil for food scandal by UN.
It's all about corruption.



Posted by: mrtruth
Date Posted: 24 June 2005 at 11:28am

OK OK, I have heard enough of all this crap. I am a rep at an ITT Tech and not one of my fellow workers lies or exagerates anything nor do we engage in high pressure sales. Thats just utterly ridiculas. I have been in technical education for over 8 years and the one thing that I have found very true is that trying to get a technical education from a typical 4 year college is almost impossible. You get no real hands on time, your taught by some student teacher who has no clue, and if you do graduate in 5 years (which is the average) you have NOBODY helping you with job assistance. I see sooooo many people coming in here with MIS BA degrees or CS BA degrees from the 4 year colleges and they are not technical enough to find employment. 95% of the students that complain about anything here are looking for someone to help them cut corners or they are full of excuses or they get upset when teachers dont take their crap or they get mad when they turn an assignment in late and they dont get an A+

Most students that have problems here would have the same problems no matter what freakin school they go to. I have seen way to many success stories coming out of here and to say that this place is horrible is just not an accurate statement.

What I think is a big waste of money is spending 2+ years learning about how to score bowling or writing 25 page papers on the Russian Revolution (yeah that stuff will get you a job)or some other odd ball crap when all you want to do is learn about networking.

I find it very funny that folks never and I mean never ask what is the placement rates for the 4 year school they are thinking about attending but oh boy ITT better be 100% or they suck. Do you folks realize that the completion rate nationally for 4 year schools is only about 15-20%...THATS HORRIBLE. ITT's is over 50%

Students who post solid grades and have great attendance and perform well on their internships usually do wind up in a good solid first year out of the gate job. Students who dont perform well we cant give away...would you expect an employer to settle for some half arsed candidate. The funny thing is I have personally worked with students that graduated (by the skin of their teeth)that didnt get hired and they came and saw me to complain and say that I lied to them....are you F'in kidding me. Have you looked at your grades and your attendance was horrible and you expect an employer to jump all over you and make you an offer. What freakin world do you live in. I also had students that did very well but their personal hygene and appearance left a lot to be desired. These are the people that seek out lawyers or hang around forums like this and rip on everything. I personally challenge anyone that is a grad of any ITT with good grades and excellent attendance and that doesnt walk around with the body odor of a dead rat or look like they just came off of a 3 day binge to post here with your email addy and I will contact you and get career services to work with you to assist you into the field.

Is ITT perfect,,,no....is any business? But the one thing that ITT is from everything that I have seen being employed here is student focused and if a mistake is made it is rectified as quickly as possible.

I am a product of the typical 4 year college approach and I would go to ITT in a heartbeat if I was coming out of high school or looking to go back to school.



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 24 June 2005 at 11:45am

mrtruth wrote:
OK OK, I have heard enough of all this crap. I am a rep at an ITT Tech and not one of my fellow workers lies or exagerates anything nor do we engage in high pressure sales. Thats just utterly ridiculas.


Perhaps none of your fellow workers do. Your site may be just fine to attend. However, the people who have previously posted are sharing their personal experiences with ITT Tech, and for you to dismiss any potential problems with the company as a whole based solely on how one individual site performs is illogical. The fact that a http://certcities.com/editorial/news/story.asp?EditorialsID= 571 - Federal investigation was launched and many people are unhappy shows that there is some evidence of wrongdoing. Companies aren't investigated unless there are allegations that have some credence.

mrtruth wrote:
I have been in technical education for over 8 years and the one thing that I have found very true is that trying to get a technical education from a typical 4 year college is almost impossible. You get no real hands on time, your taught by some student teacher who has no clue, and if you do graduate in 5 years (which is the average) you have NOBODY helping you with job assistance.


That's simply rubbish. At my university, a typical 4-year college, as you put it, you get plenty of hands-on time, you're taught by the professors, and if you do graduate, there is an employment assistance center. And I didn't graduate from an "elite" college... I went to a state school.

Personally, I have nothing against ITT Tech. I don't know anyone who graduated from there, and I never attended there.

That being said, your attacks are not becoming, and throwing out broad generalizations as you are doing does not present a good image for ITT Tech. Just sayin', as an outsider.

-------------
MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: mrtruth
Date Posted: 24 June 2005 at 12:09pm

As far as the "investigation" goes. It has been going on for a while now and ITT has totally and 100% opened everything up to the feds and nothing has been found as being inappropriate. They cant find one lick of anything to hang a hat on and the folks that brought forth the investigation were past employees that were fired cause they didnt do a good job and when the lawyers open up the class action band wagon of course a lot of people being opportunistic hopped in.

ITT has inhouse and independant third party directed ethics compliance accountability measures inplace (nation wide)...we go really far to make sure were not doing anything to mislead or misrepresent.

Your right I did paint a broad stroke concerning 4 year schools. Your institution obviously does a great job, many dont and I would venture to say (from my experience)most of them dont.




Posted by: rrwin
Date Posted: 24 June 2005 at 12:57pm

Well mrtruth,

I went to ITT TECH admissions during 2001 recession; honestly they are engage in high pressure sales. That admission lady was talking about someone who graduated from ITT Tech and now takes interview at some high tech company making 80 Thousand a year. That admission lady told me some electrician makes 80 thousand a year and he was ITT Tech graduate. Also I was told I can get a job before I graduate. It seemed like they grantee a job.

I was glad to meet that admission lady and heard all the success stories that I wanted to go there, luckily I talked to my older friend who is in his 60ís. When I told my friend about 33 thousand tuition, he told me state universities cost less than that. My friend told me no body can grantee me a job. His brother who works for some college did more research and results were ITT TECH not accredited regionally by top six.


A co worker of mine went to ITT TECH and has 4.0 GPA for two year degree, didnít get any job yet. He graduated in 2003.



Posted by: mrtruth
Date Posted: 24 June 2005 at 1:22pm

Thats funny how you were quoted the 80K figure cause during the financial aid process students are shown and they sign a paper acknowledging that the saw (in writing) and understand the past 2-3 years high, mid and low starting salaries and placement percentages. Sooo it would have been pretty stupid for that lady to tell you one thing only to know that you will see exactly what that campuses starting ranges are for real.


From what you said it sounds she was talking about somone who has been in the field a few years that graduated from ITT. I dont think she was referring to a fresh out of the box grad.

I have personally worked with grads that are now doing 50K-80K but they have been in the field for a few years so it's not something that doesnt happen.

As far as your co-worker goes...leave your email addy and i will contact you to see why he hasnt been placed graduating with a 4.0

Does your friend live in an area that has many companies?
Does he/she present him/herself professionally?
Will your friend relocate?
Does your friend have unrealistic starting salary issues?




Posted by: mrtruth
Date Posted: 24 June 2005 at 2:29pm

Oh yeah I also forgot to mention that the US Attorney General has just called off all further investigation as it has found through all of it's extensive work NO WRONG DOING on any part of ITT's business !!!!!


I just got the letter from my boss today !!!!!





Posted by: brian_h
Date Posted: 24 June 2005 at 2:39pm

I don't know anything about ITT but I have several degrees and I have also taken classes at a "tech school" some years back. You can walk around any institution of higher learning and can almost pick out people who you know have a very low chance of being successful in their first job search. "Tech schools" seem to have an even greater problem placing students because entrance into the programs are very easy and loans are readily available to students. The tech school that I attended was full of individuals who were looking for a quick way to jumpstart a career that may or may not have been really cut out for IT. Some tried hard but were never successful because the hiring process involves many factors other then a piece of paper you may have obtained from a college or tech school. I hope that ITT isn't stretching the truth about career possibilities but everyone should know that there are very few shortcuts to success in any career field. I have worked in and out of IT for 10 years and have yet to get $80000 a year for my work.

Just my thoughts.



Posted by: dc_40
Date Posted: 24 June 2005 at 5:19pm

I am ITT graduate; I received an A.S. Electronics Engineering Technology from Tampa, FL, June 97 (G.P.A 3.4) and B.S. Telecommunications Engineering Technology from Hayward, CA Sept 01 (G.P.A. 3.7). I have also attended a quite of few courses at a community college and state university. I am currently half way through my degree for a M.S. in IT Project Management and Leadership.

I have had positive experience at both ITT Institutes. What you put in at this school is what you get out regarding education. I have seen the issues about cheating and teachers giving reviews the day before the final; the reviews being exactly the answers on the test. This is not true with all teachers. I have seen this at the community college level too.

A lot of the instructors due look the other way when students are cheating on an exam or copying assignment. The student is only cheating himself or herself. I tried explain this to some of my classmates, what are you going to do in an interview, when they ask you some type of technical question or ask you to take a test. I have always studied the material ITT provided and not to rely on the instructor review to pass a test or quiz. Since a lot of the instructors look the other way when cheating, you are going to see individuals graduate with high G.P.Aís and have no knowledge of the subject matter. These individuals that are cheating are just setting themselves up for failure in the job market. The instructor and students are making ITTís reputation look bad for the rest of us that actually go there to learn.

I believe the individuals that rely on cutting the corners/cheating are majority of the ones complaining about ITT, how ITT could not find them a job.

I have never had any issues finding a job in the Electronics or IT field. Usually in the Electronics filed, the employer usually provides an Electronics Aptitude Test. I have never had an issue passing any exam.

Both ITT Institutes did help me find a job. While pursuing my A.S. EET, ITT did help me get a job as a RF tech ($8.50 hr.). After completing my degree, I decided to move San Jose, CA for all the high tech job opportunities. ITT San Jose job placements assisted me to find a job as RF Tech working on microwave frequency thin film amplifiers for $16 hr. I then did some company hoping to increase my salary maxing out $21 hr. as an Electronic Manufacturing Technician. Due to our office being a small branch office, I was given the opportunity to be trained to backup the system admin for IT support. I took some classes at the community college for A+, NT workstation, NT Server, and Novell. After that, I fell in love with IT and Telecommunications.

After getting a couple years under my belt, I left and found a job as Technical Support Engineer I ($55K salary per year), supporting routers, channel-banks, MUX, frame-relay switches, and DACS. I decided to go back to ITT Hayward for a B.S in TCT program. Once I completed my degree, my company promoted me to a level 2 Technical Support Engineer, increasing my salary to $63K salary per year plus stock options.

ITT does kind of give false advertisement about salary ranges. The reason why I say ďkind ofĒ, because it maybe one student that did graduate with a high salary range of $60K+, but they do not tell how much experience they have or their other qualifications. They only focus on that one student one when selling, not the average with no experiences.


-------------
DC40
CCNP,CWSP,CWNA,C|EH,MCP,CNA,A+
pursuing PMP



Posted by: rrwin
Date Posted: 24 June 2005 at 11:47pm

mr truth,

I can't give my email address. My co-worker lives in Portland Or.

He still makes $10 to $11 dollars an hour at his old job
after ITT TECH degree.
He is a hard working guy and would love to earn more with his degree but I don't see anything happening for him.
When I went to ITT TECH Addmissions office, I just went to talk to them about their education. That is when I was told about 80k a year wages. Very Smart way to target POOR students. I was suppose to go back with my parents to sign the papers, but I never did.

Why ITT TECH has money in Stock Market (under ESI symbol)?
Why ITT TECH is not accredited regionally so that states colleges can take their credits?
What was the main reason the Feds had to investigate ITT TECH colleges everywhere, even in OREGON?



Posted by: dc_40
Date Posted: 25 June 2005 at 6:37am

rrwin, have a few questions.

1. Does your co-worker have any certifications?

2. Have they had any job interviews, since graduating from ITT?

3. If he or she has had any interviews, but did not get the job? You co-worker needs to analyze what areas he or she is weakin and why they are not getting the job.

4. If he is not getting any interviews, he or she needs to relook at their resume and most likely change their formatt because it is not doing the job.

5. I not sure what the job market is in your area or what is hot? Your Co-work needs to analyze the jobs boards to see what hot and what is not in your area. He or she may need to do some self studying and achieve some certs.

In 2002, when seaarching for jobs, I noticed Washington DC area was doing good in the job market. The market was doing good because of all government contracts for DoD and DHS, but you need to be either prior military or have a clearance. I did my research, I joined the US Coast Guard to get the requirements. The degree alone will not get you interview or a high paying job, it is your whole package.

When I graduated from high school, I was one of the targets for the high paying jobs scam (at that time it was $30-40K in Tampa,Fl Area 1995, which was good). It is very smart way to target poor students or high school students? After realizing, there were a few students making that, but they were adults with a lot of exprience and qualifications. You need to start at the bottom, once you get a couple years expriences you need to start company hoping. It took me 5 yrs with certs and continue education to achieve that $63K I posted above. Now I am making half that because I am in the military, but I received some much training and exprience that it has been worth it. I have only one more year to finish up my 3 yr obligation.






-------------
DC40
CCNP,CWSP,CWNA,C|EH,MCP,CNA,A+
pursuing PMP



Posted by: rrwin
Date Posted: 25 June 2005 at 2:33pm

dc_40
or mrtruth

no, my co worker doesnít have any certification. But I know he has a GPA of 3.9 to 4.0.
Funny thing is that my co worker didnít know what is MCSC or Cisco, or A+ certification is, and he was a student at ITT TECH studying Networking. I guess at ITT TECH, they donít do certification test.

Yes, he went to job interview, but someone with more experience was hired, and no he has no military experience.

So are you saying, there should be some military experience with ITT TECH Degree to land a good job?

I know another ITT TECH graduate works at Burger King. Now how does the 80 thousand a year salary apply to him, can an ITT TECH admission answer this.

I just want to know what is the fact, how does all this work.



Posted by: dc_40
Date Posted: 25 June 2005 at 6:03pm

rrwin,
I can not comment on the networking curriculum, because I took the electronics and telecom curriculum.

I do not know your co-workers study habits, but like I stated what you put in is what you get out regarding education at ITT. Since teachers look the otherway when students cheat, you are going to see students with high G.P.A.'s but do not know the subject matter(same concept as using braindumps to pass certs). I had quite a few in my class.

rrwin wrote:
dc_40
or mrtruth

no he has no military experience.

So are you saying, there should be some military experience with ITT TECH Degree to land a good job?



I am not saying you need military experiences, I did not even ask if he did or suggest he needs military experience. Prior to the military I worked as RF tech, Test Technician, Electronic Manufacturing Technician, Desktop support, Technical Support Engineer, and NOC Tech.

I WANTED TO MOVE INTO THE GOVERNMENT SECTOR in 2002 (specifically the Project Management field), but most jobs in the DC Area required prior military or a clearances. I decided the best way to achieves this was to join the military. I am not saying this is the track your co-worker should take. This was track I decided to take to achieve my goals.

Again, prior to the military I had plenty of job opportunities. Even when I joined the military, I was working as a NOC tech for Nextel. I did not join because I was unemployed. I have also been working in the field since 1996 and have multiple certifications. My resume focuses more on my work experience than my education. Like I stated in the other post it is your entire package: education, certs, soft skills, experience, etcÖ to be able to receive high paying salary.

I know individuals in the San Jose, CA area with no degree making more than I did, $75K+. They were extremely good at what they did and had 8-10 years experience plus certs.

I do keep in touch with couple of my ITT classmates; one is Sales Account Manager for Electronics 8 yrs experiences (avgs. $70K depending on the number of sales in Tampa, FL) and the other is System Engineer working with medical equipment 6yrs experiences ( $60K salary Hayward, CA)

I can not tell you how much your going to make with no exprience, but it is going to be most likely low figures. When I started as RF tech in San Jose, CA area with one year experience I was making $16 hour, after getting some experience, I start jumping around to different companies to increasing my salary; again this was around the dot com boom, so jobs were easy to come by.

rrwin wrote:

I know another ITT TECH graduate works at Burger King. Now how does the 80 thousand a year salary apply to him, can an ITT TECH admission answer this.



I guest you did not read my other post. ITT does kind of give false advertisement. A person could have graduate from the course $80K, but they do not tell you how much exprience or qualifactions the individual had. When I graduated with my B.S. I was making $63K. My school is not lying to future students when they say we have ITT graduate making $63K. The student should be asking what other qualifactions or exprience did that student have to be able make $63K. I do not think this is right, they should be telling you what average salary is for students with no experience. I was caught on this scam when I did my A.S. degree back in 95.




-------------
DC40
CCNP,CWSP,CWNA,C|EH,MCP,CNA,A+
pursuing PMP



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 25 June 2005 at 6:06pm

rrwin wrote:
Funny thing is that my co worker didnít know what is MCSC is, and he was a student at ITT TECH studying Networking.


MCSC? I've been studying networking a long time and don't think I've ever heard of that cert

Found a very interesting article that somewhat relates to all the bitching and moaning going on in this thread (and among counterclaims to the contrary).

http://www.appeal.mb.ca/pds/03141.html - Read mostly the Background Info, towards the end, some interesting conclusions

-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: rrwin
Date Posted: 25 June 2005 at 9:17pm

I guess I made a mistake, I'm not in networking, I meant MCSA.





Posted by: rrwin
Date Posted: 25 June 2005 at 9:37pm

Wildcat_Dude wrote:
rrwin wrote:
Funny thing is that my co worker didnít know what is MCSC is, and he was a student at ITT TECH studying Networking.


MCSC? I've been studying networking a long time and don't think I've ever heard of that cert

I'm sorry my bad I meant MCSE. I'm not in networking.

Found a very interesting article that somewhat relates to all the bitching and moaning going on in this thread (and among counterclaims to the contrary).

http://www.appeal.mb.ca/pds/03141.html - Read mostly the Background Info, towards the end, some interesting conclusions



Posted by: rrwin
Date Posted: 25 June 2005 at 9:58pm



Found a very interesting article that somewhat relates to all the bitching and moaning going on in this thread

This is not bitching, this is about ITT TECH Degree



Posted by: Indy_Monthly
Date Posted: 29 June 2005 at 1:50pm

Greetings. I write for a city magazine called Indianapolis Monthly, and I'm working on a story about ITT Educational Services. I'm trying to get in contact with current and former ITT students -- preferably those who enrolled at an Indiana campus -- to interview them about their experiences with the school. Whatever your opinion of ITT -- good, bad, indifferent -- I would like to talk to you about it.

Any help that anyone on this forum could provide is greatly appreciated. I can be contacted via my e-mail address below, and I'm happy to cover the cost of subsequent phone calls. Thanks very much for your consideration.

Martin Kuz
Senior Editor, Indianapolis Monthly
40 Monument Circle, Suite 100
Indianapolis, IN 46204
E-mail: mkuz@indymonthly.emmis.com
Website: www.indianapolismonthly.com



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:35pm

I wish Hollywood can make a movie about ITT TECH, let Tom C. and Brad P. be the heroes for the real world drama.

Indy Monthly,

where can I find about your fact about ITT TECH online?

Please provide us with a website when you done writting about ITT TECH.


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rr



Posted by: NFLEagles1
Date Posted: 06 July 2005 at 11:59am

Hello guys,

Well I'm glad I found this forum after spending the day yesterday at ITT Tech.

I do have to take some of these reviews with a grain of salt though. Many of you post about salaries and quick education, and many of you admitted that you are in a totally different career field. If you only persue careers based on money, then you will probably never succeed. My upbringing in a public school emphasized the fact that you need to analize what you like and dislike, then find a career path that matches your interests. I have always been an analytical thinker. I've always excelled at math. I've always been interested in how things work. I've always been interested in Computers.

I am passionate about IT and Technology. That is my interest. I'm not persuing it because this school or that school says it is in high demand and pays alot for it. If I were only persuing money then I'd try to become a doctor or lawyer. However, I can't stand the sight of blood, and I don't care for jobs in suits. Sure the money is good, but I know I would not be successful at it, because I can never hide from my personal likes and dislikes. When you are passionate about your field of work, it shows, and you can succeed.

As a few of you have pointed out. It sounds like the overpriced books are junk, and in some cases the teachers are not knowledgeable enough to teach these classes. Being so high priced, I was hoping to get a "private" school kind of education, but I may need to do some more research.

I would however like to know from people who went from ITT to a regular college. One thing I like about ITT is that the general education is also related to the field you are studying for. I don't want to go through Shakespear just to get through my general education classes. I don't care about history and I don't want to pay for classes that will not help me in my career field.    That is what frustrates me about regular college. Also, I like hands on. I like lab hours to see real world problems and solutions. I won't remember something if I just read about it. I want to actually see it in person. ITT states you get more lab time then conventional colleges and deal with real world situations. Is that claim true?

The one advantage I have is that I'm already an IT Supervisor at my workplace. I just want to expand my options not only for my current workplace, but for others as well. I don't really care for the Career assistance, because I know how to sell myself. As another poster pointed out, your resume is not just about your education. Work experience is also extremely vital!! I should know, I hire people for our department. The truth is, I haven't hired anyone with a college degree yet, and everybody in my department are excellent people. I have never fired one person.

Many of these posts I see are either about the college finding them a job, or about their degree not getting them anywhere. You are responsible for yourself. You not only find a job, but YOU are responsible for how well the interview goes. In fact, I was amazed to see how many people don't even put on a nice shirt and tie with some decent slacks. Many degree people I interviewed demanded to work a different schedule then what I advertised. These are the MORONS I've been hearing about. I as the employer make the demands. If you think you can make demands because you have a piece of paper, then you won't be working for me. I never hire a college grad with no work experience.

I began working in retail and saw alot of people who couldn't understand that the employer is in charge. During my first years I would work ANY shift, helped out where I could, and didn't complain. Others would start demanding different work schedules, call in sick to go party, then wondered why they were fired. ALL of my work references are past co-workers, supervisors, or managers. Friends as references are not relevent as far as I'm concerned. I point out the fact that I'm willing to work overtime, any schedule, work on holidays, have excellent attendance, and always give two weeks notice. The employer can verify my claims by calling my references. Do you guys see how my education is not the only thing I sell myself on? Sell yourself on the total package!



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 06 July 2005 at 12:45pm

Everybody wants a degree to find a better job and better earning potentials. Itís really not about career or what you love doing, it is about working for great companies where opportunities are give to turn your life around. Thatís what ITT TECH promises most of the time, to place you in a good company to change you.

Thatís how people become easy target when someone shows a fake dream.

Like they say, ďthe worst day of fishing beats the best day in the officeĒ.


Only sell yourself to the man above all of us.



Posted by: NFLEagles1
Date Posted: 06 July 2005 at 1:55pm

As long as you believe that, you will always have a job, not a career.

I will agree that the advertising is misleading, but like the parents who sue McDonalds for making their children fat, it takes a little common sence to cut through the hype.

Lets say this day and age that Historians were in high demand. I never did good in history, and don't care about it. Should I persue that career because a college says it is high paying and in demand? Come on guys, this is common sence. I bet you guys also complain about buying cars. Complaining about being mislead and ripped off. Yet people like me do my research on the internet, and have the information to make sure I walk out of it with a fair deal. You should research any high priced things or services you go for in life. If you always get caught up in the moment, then you are going to get ripped off on cars, homes, contractor work, etc, etc. How many of you have persued the Car Salesman jobs? Afterall they promise $50,000+ or more per year.

Look, I'm not trying to critisize, I'm just saying that if you work in an area that you have no interest in, you will never be moved to bigger and better things. I know I could never be a history major, doctor, lawyer, etc, so no matter what fly by night schools that offer you higher pay with successful companies, I will never apply because I know that is not what I'm interested in.



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 06 July 2005 at 2:05pm

Good posts, Eagles. :)

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MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 06 July 2005 at 2:19pm

I 2nd that emotion, ugghhh conclusion Good job NFLEagles #2 (had to throw that in)

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 06 July 2005 at 3:34pm

I guess you are right NFLEagles,

If you want to make money, invest in stock market like ITT TECH does, degree really doesn't matter.

I guess ITT Tech is smarter than all of the people who post comments, Invest money in STOCK Market to get rich.

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rr



Posted by: Billy
Date Posted: 06 July 2005 at 6:04pm

I graduated from ITT in Newburgh IN about 3 weeks ago with an AAS in ITCNS. My experience there is a mixed one. I liked most of my teachers there but some weren't that good at teaching. The administration there sucked so did recruiting, but what do you expect out of a recruter. They aren't just going to tell you every flaw in the school, they are their to sugar coat every thing to get you to spend 32k. If they didn't, they wouldn't have jobs! Regardless of what they say, you need to go talk to as many students and instructors as possable. Trusting what a recruter says is like trusting spam email. I loved my time at ITT. Mainly because the class environment was very personal. All my class mates weren't just nameless faces, they became some of my best friends. We were blessed with a great instructer, Mr. Richey, who has lived the business and nows how to teach like no one else. I reseaved a life experience that I could never have gotten in a major univeristy.

I had a great experience with the people in the school. Not necessarilly the school it's self. But I can say, they let some of the dumpest people graduate that school. I had a guy in my Capstone class that didn't even know how to type with both hands graduate. He was dead weight in a class that required major teamwork. What I'm saying is I graduated with a GPA of 3.98, I worked my ass off and I know this doesn't apply to me but, if you want to get a degree in anything that ITT offers without knowing anything, all you do is pay 32k and show up at least every other week. They will let you pass just because you are paying them.



Posted by: NFLEagles1
Date Posted: 06 July 2005 at 6:10pm

A degree is actually very important to other employers. Especially government jobs, but many of you leave me with the impression that 1 or all of the following is true:

A degree will skip me ahead of starting at the bottom and working my way up.

A degree is the ONLY thing that matters when it comes to landing a job.

Neither of those are true. Your degree will advance you from the bottom up to the top faster and higher than a non grad, but you will still most likely start at the bottom. Higher positions demand work experience, so get your work experience by starting in lower positions.

At interviews and on resumes, emphasize your past job responsibilities, you can even embelish a little if you want to.

As one other guy mentioned, begin job hopping, but don't go too fast. If other employers see that you are only at a place for less than a year, they will figure you will do the same to them. I have filtered through many job hoppers. However, I am guilty of job hopping, until I got to my current employer. I've been here for 5 years and don't see myself going elsewhere at the moment. Not because I can't, but because I like my job, the people I work with, and the pay is below $50K a year, but I'm just not after money at the moment. I'm comfortable where I'm at.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 06 July 2005 at 10:27pm

Billy,


with a GPA of 3.98, I think it will be easier for you to get the type of career you want.

I don't know if ITT TECH can help you find one.



Posted by: BDuclos
Date Posted: 22 July 2005 at 3:51pm

From reading this whole forum. I have seen multiple views on ITT Tech. I am currently a student at the Tampa campus.
When I first went in they showed me the program that I had chosen and the High, Low, and Average of what everyone had made coming out of the school. I knew that school would help me to better myself, I have made some good friends and am enjoying my experience. I do agree I have known allot about computers and I am going for my A+ certification soon. One thing I did like is the Virtual Librar they have, have yet to see anyone mention that. It is available after you graduate also, I have used it to study for my A+ exam and everything is right there. I currently have a job at Staple as a Computer Technician when I applied for that job I had to prove I had experience and the guy who was ahead of me had a Computer Science degree from the University of Florida and he did not get the job. You aren't ever guaranteed a job like most others in here have said. It is about experience and I am 18 and found this true you can come out of High School and get a job from a College Graduate because they do not have the experience. The only thing I can say is that some of the teachers are teaching behind the problems and work you are doing in the class. I am a student at the ITT Tech Tampa Campus and I dont really have to many bad things to say about it.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 11:20am

I guess at an interview it really doesn't matter what college anyone went to. It depends on the people seeking a job. If those people can answer questions powerfully at an interview, they will get the job.



Posted by: BDuclos
Date Posted: 24 July 2005 at 6:52pm

Pretty much, you just have to prvoe that you have the experience and that you are the guy/girl for the job.



Posted by: tva worker
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 6:07pm

I'm an ITT graduate pretty happy with my career,but I have to ask two questions.

Why is ITT not credited?

Why do they let people who don't deserve to graduate, graduate? (Don't they know that it makes it that much harder on students who study and know their material to get jobs?)I'm sure we all have seen it...

dehoyos29@hotmail.com



Posted by: BDuclos
Date Posted: 27 July 2005 at 7:42am

The day I went in for orientation I was told that some classes may not be credited. They said that general education classes were such as your english, math etc. You also have to remember that is a TECH school, not a traditional college. So allot of the courses are not credited and do not transfer. I have not transfered so I do not really now what to say. As for the other question yes I have heard of them letting pretty much everyone graduate, but for those people who do do that, they aren't really getting anywhere with their life.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 27 July 2005 at 9:44am

ITT Tech is not accredited because for accreditation there are some procedures. Certain classes need to be taught by instructors who have masterís degree. And there should be no cheating, for example, the oneís who donít deserve the degree should not get a degree.

Then state universities will recognize those colleges (schools) to transfer in their credits.
I went to a TECH school too. Not ITT TECH.
My college was accredited and I was able to transfer my credits to so many state colleges. Also My TECH College was non profit, and there was no cheating done to give degrees to the ones who donít deserve it. And they donít have money in stock market.



Posted by: BDuclos
Date Posted: 27 July 2005 at 11:28am

Everyone also has to remember that ITT is a PRIVATE school. If you look at any private school ie. University of Tampa tuition and everything else is higher whether a resident or not. So if it is a state school then everything is funded through the state and is of course made cheaper for residents. Towards having money in the stock market you have to remember that some states ie. Florida use the lottery and other ways to pool money for schools. I'm not sure how ITT uses the money but that is just an example. Plus you said it was a non profit Tech school. Not sure if inyour cas ebut most non-profit schools are state supported which would be the reason for your credits transferring over, because the state has the final say in it.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 27 July 2005 at 2:16pm

no, the college I went to was not getting a dime from state. My tech college was also private. The reason to transfer my credits to other colleges was accreditation by WASC.

I'm not saying ITT TECH is a bad college. My point is ITT TECH is for profit college.

When schools have money in stock market under ESI, it means the the college or school is for profit.

State colleges are not for profit schools.



Posted by: Marilyn
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 8:25am

Here is my opinion on the ITT sucks forum.

Did any of you that signed up at ITT do your research? It sounds like you were waiting for someone to hold your hand through your education. Your education is what you make of it, no matter where you go to school. There are a variety of technical schools out there, some are good, some are very bad. I've been to both sides of the fence, believe me ITT Tech is one of the better schools out there. I have had nothing but great experiences and plan to continue my education at ITT to the MBA level.

As far as the Federal investigation of ITT Tech, the case is closed. They found nothing wrong with the business dealings of ITT and they didn't mislead anyone. ITT has over 75 campuses, I am sure you will find some admission reps that are "questionable" at any school. My rep was great and she was very helpful.

When you are an IT student, you cannot learn every single thing about IT in class. As a graduate you take your class room experience and get "real world" hands on experience. If you think just by going to school you can walk into a job and know everything about the IT field, its just not realistic.

So before you start bashing the school, look at what improvements you could've done to get a better job. Schools can't do everything for you, we have to work at it too.

There is my opinion.

M



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 8:31am

I think all this discussion has lead me to the point of just buying a degree from a paper mill, to heck with studying, the heck with being handed a job I didn't want, to heck with the relationship with classmates



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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 12:19pm

Marilyn,

Why did Federal investigation of ITT Tech happened in the first place?
What were Feds thinking to go after ITT TECH?



Posted by: friedeggs
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 8:26pm

I went for 2 semesters before I realized how worthless ITT is.
They only care about your money. Period. If you fail, they are only worried if you are going to pay off the loan. They are a business, and I dont hold that against them, but being in the education field, they have a responsibility to tell students the truth about what thier school will give them as far as real world skills. I was told when I registered that when I graduated, I would have a bachlors degree and certifications up to CCNP. Lie lie lie lie. Associates Degree, and you have to study for the certs on your own, not to mention that you have to pay for them yourselves. The price tag on teh school wasnt bad when I thought about it including the certification fees...but without it, your paying for low grade education instructors.
A good percentage of them are actually students working on thier Masters. ITT offers students 50% off thier tuition at thier REAL college while they are working full time as an instructor.

So...its a business that doesnt give a sh*t if you get an education.
The business employs people that do not have a degree in teaching, nor do they give a sh*t if you are learning. They are doing it for discounted tuition. If they do a poor job, GUESS WHAT? They arent let go until the next semester begins. Which sticks YOU with a second rate education in a job market that demands first class knowledge.

I am now working in IT and studying my ass off. Probably going to go to UofH to get my degree. I wasted my time and money at ITT, and all they got me was this lousy....umm..crap I didnt even get a damn T-Shirt.




Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 11:48pm

Should we blame ITT Tech, or the poor economy for the problems every one is posting?

What if the economy kicks off, and huge number of Tech degree students get hired by some great companies?

Will those Tech students complain when they get jobs through ITT TECH degree?




Posted by: D-Day
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 8:11pm

friedeggs wrote:
...I was told when I registered that when I graduated, I would have a bachlors degree and certifications up to CCNP. Lie lie lie lie. Associates Degree, and you have to study for the certs on your own, not to mention that you have to pay for them yourselves.



You have got to be f'ing kidding me. Are you as stupid enough to believe that any education you recieve (other then those that prepare you for a specific certification exam) would give you the knowledge you need to pass any certification you seek? Even if the rep said this, why in the hell would you believe it unless you were - correction - are un-educated about the IT field? My Mom's friend is currently a Network Adminstrator for the county, and his advice was to study and pursue as many certifications you can AFTER you get a degree. Don't just stop learning. You apparently thought that the learning ended after your program did.


friedeggs wrote:
A good percentage of them are actually students working on thier Masters. ITT offers students 50% off thier tuition at thier REAL college while they are working full time as an instructor.
....They are doing it for discounted tuition.....I am now working in IT and studying my ass off. Probably going to go to UofH to get my degree.




I find this HILARIOUS! Currently, the San Bernardino campus, and I believe many other campuses, have instructors that have been there for more then 3-5 years. A master's degree would only take 1-2 years to obtain when you have a BS degree (A BS degree is a requirement to work as an instructor for ITT Tech). So basically, you just made a very confusing statement. Why would teachers stay with a school for 3-5 years or longer, when they had already obtained their Master's degree after the first 1-2 years?

To tell you the truth, it seems like you, and many other did not even do research before you attended to school. It seems like you and many others also did not have any expierence or passion with/for the IT field, or technology. I get the impression you and many others thought ITT would get them a great job that pays $60k+ a year after only studying for two years. Basically, you and many other dumbly followed a path someone sold them, and blamed the sales-man for doing his job.

I've been in the sales industry, and could see right through the rep. I do admit, ITT was the first school I checked out, and enrolled in. I have not started yet, but I do know I can cancel my loans and enrollment anytime before schools starts and not be charged a dime. But, I probably wont. I checked out other schools. I checked out DevRy, and the local community college. Heck, I even have a friend who goes to Cal Poly. Devry was bullsh*t. Nice campus, but the reps. are horrible, and sold the school horibbly. Local community college is nice, but schedule is not flexible (except for the GEN. ED. courses, which are online). Cal Poly, which I know FOR-SURE, is what employers want, is only for full-time college students (the workload I hear is very difficult, and carrying a full-time job with it will be almost impossible).

ITT Tech was the only one that would work with me. They even set up the financial aid and everything. I did almost nothing. They even got me a private loan. Heck, some people whine about the $37K they're spending, but they don't realise it's not exactly $37k. If you live in California and get a high GPA, you could qualify for the Cal Grant (I hear it's about $9k a year). If you also qualify, you get the Pal Grant, which I believe is about $4050 for 3 semesters. Your total amount in loans for a two year program is really about $10900. Not too bad.

All in all, I also believe that you get as much from something as you put into it. You can't expect to smell like sh*t, look like sh*t, have breath like sh*t, and get a job that pays $60+ k a year - even with a 4 year degree. You have to be presentable, sharp, and knowledgable. You can't just "jump" into the IT field and become an expert. The IT field is always evolving, and learning NEVER stops. My Dad had gone to ITT and recieved a 2 year degree. From what I remember, about 15 years later he's working for a major newspaper company and grossing $100+K a year. He also has his own business, which rakes in an additional $30-40k a year. Yet, he always had to cram 1000+ page manuals in 3 days to learn about new products and new software. You have to work hard if you want to be successful. If you stay here and whine....well, that's why your not successful.



Posted by: D-Day
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 8:26pm

Justice wrote:
Marilyn,

Why did Federal investigation of ITT Tech happened in the first place?
What were Feds thinking to go after ITT TECH?


Hey, as far as that goes, there was a lawsuit or something against ITT Tech for falsifying records so they could get federal money (AKA pell grants and staffords loans), and also so that their stock holders would think they were doing better then they actually were, thus giving them a false sense of security with the profits and investing even more.

So, the government opened up an investigation, and raided all ITT campuses. You know what was found?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. ITT Tech. shared all information with the fed's, and nothing was found. Result = Case closed.

The government found nothing, even after a surprise raid (Hell, we caught Iraq off-guard, why couldn't we catch ITT Tech?).

So now, even though the investigation has been closed, morons bring it up so discourage people from advancing in their lives. I truly believe that if the IT field is for you, you should be succesful in it. If not, you will be one of the complainers in one of many forums, blaming your failures on the easiest thing you can point your finger at.

So, that's it. No, I'm not an employee of ITT Tech. Heck, I even wrote a cancellation letter after researching ITT Tech. I decided not cancel my enrollment. I'm merely an informed future student who does his research. Just do what feels right. This school feels right for me so I will stick with it.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 30 July 2005 at 11:03am

D Day,

What do you have to say about ITT TECH not being accredited?

What do you have to say about a college that is for profit and has money in Stock Market? UNDER ESI SYMBOL>



Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 30 July 2005 at 6:11pm

Justic

Who cares if they are for profit. I earned my second BS degree from Kaplan University which is owned by the Washington Post and is also for profit. Just becouse someone runs a business to make money does not mean it is a scam. And Kaplan is accredited.
As far as not being accredited; they are not the only school that is not accredited. I personally would never go to a school that was not but some people find it fits them better.
The points eveyone is tring to make is before you enroll in any school do your research and make sure you are getting what you can out of it.



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mike



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 30 July 2005 at 7:17pm

I guess ITT TECH beats MIT in the END.



Posted by: D-Day
Date Posted: 31 July 2005 at 12:17am

Justice wrote:
D Day,

What do you have to say about ITT TECH not being accredited?

What do you have to say about a college that is for profit and has money in Stock Market? UNDER ESI SYMBOL>


Justice, what the hell does this have to do with education? You're like one of the babbling idiots that keepr bringing up the VERY prominent fact that they are not accredited, and are in the stock market. Have you looked at the Nasdaq lately? Compare ITT Tech and Devry. Devry is accredited, but for some reason, ITT Tech's shares are worth double that of Devry. Oh sh*t, they're not accredited, but they're beating the balls off another school who is also for-profit, and is accredited.

You seem to fit right into the "idiots-who-don't-do-their-research" category. Before you ask a question to try to make ITT look worse then it already does, and you try to make yourself seem like a smart-ass, do your research. And yes, you are trying to be a small-balled smart-ass:

Justice wrote:
I guess ITT TECH beats MIT in the END.


Why the idiotic sarcasm? No, ITT isn't even close to beating MIT. Or Cal Poly. If I, and many other working adults had a choice, we would attend those types of schools, in which course loads are 50+ hours a week. Guess what? We don't have that choice. We have to find a place where we can get a decent education, work a full time job, have just a bit of time to spend with our families, and do school work, so that in the end, we could get that piece of paper that would help us advance ourselves and our families. Now, I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but anything is guaranteed to those who work for it and are dedicated enough.

Well, enough said.



Posted by: D-Day
Date Posted: 31 July 2005 at 12:21am

Justice wrote:
Should we blame ITT Tech, or the poor economy for the problems every one is posting?

What if the economy kicks off, and huge number of Tech degree students get hired by some great companies?

Will those Tech students complain when they get jobs through ITT TECH degree?



Now, Justice, I truly respect this post. I've bashed you in my other post because your replies just seemed moronic and gave me the idea you just wanted to question everything. I really do agree with this comment. I don't believe people would be whining if the IT bubble didn't burst. Or at least not that many. But it did, and you have to adapt and, in a way, "walk through the sand storm", or just lay there beat and broken, wondering why. Good comment.



Posted by: D-Day
Date Posted: 31 July 2005 at 9:49am

Oh, a couple more things to add. Yes, ITT Tech. is a for-profit institution. They freely and proudly admitted that during my interview with them. They proudly admitted they had owned MGM(I think it's MGM), but sold it because they wanted to be completely dedicated to the education business.

As for accreditation, I've heard they're not accredited because one requirement for regional accreditation is having teachers with MA degrees. I'm also pretty sure they don't want to meet the requirements for regional accreditation because they want to stay a technical school and stray from traditional colleges - AKA all of the GEN. ED courses. The one bad thing about this is that the credits wont transfer (Actually, I've heard that a lot of credits transfer to Pheonix Online). That's the real only bad thing about ITT Tech not being accredited. They are accredited by this one organization. I forget the name, but it's recognized by the Department of Education. I read this one article which stated for things to look into with technical schools to make sure they're not scams. One of them was that the school be recognized by the Department of Education.

Lastly, I've heard a lot of comments about ITT Tech. lying out of their ass. Not true. The representatives might lie to you, but they have you sign a few documents before you enroll. These documents state job placement rates, average starting salaries, and actual graduation rates. If your stupid enough, or just blind, to just read the documents, sign them, and then whine about ITT Tech. lying to you about job placement and starting salaries, then you shouldn't be blaming ITT Tech. You should blame yourself.



Posted by: BDuclos
Date Posted: 31 July 2005 at 7:16pm

Like D-Day said it is smart to look into what you are planning to do before just starting something. Before I ever went to ITT I looked around and saw what else was in my area. But I found out that I didnt really have the money to go to school full time. Which is why I like the schedule I can work full time support myself and I even found that by research most of my General Ed. classes will transfer into USF which is the closest college to me. I figure that if I personaly feel like I am not "Getting my moneys worth" then I can simply tranfer, but I like y teachers and at this campus, I feel as though I am learning allot and can continue my education further and get the certs that I need to get a good job after school then work my way up to make more money.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 31 July 2005 at 11:37pm

Okay,

I hear all the good things about a ITT TECH, and I'm getting a feeling that the students who went to ITT Tech are stupid. For me it is hard to understand becuase a friend of mine has 3.9 GPA in Networking and he works in sales at his old job.

Not only him, there are others I know, who went to ITT Tech and works at burger King, and bank.

Should we say these people were crazy who didn't get good jobs, or should we say ITT Tech showed them a fake dream and left them in cold after taking their money.



Posted by: dc_40
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 11:40am

Justice,

Did you read any of my previous posts, which are on page 7, I explain why students can have a 3.9 GPA and do not understand any of the subject matter. Majority of these individuals cheat and take short cuts to pass each course, very same concept as using brain dumps to pass certs.

You cannot classify all ITT students as being stupid. From my own personal experience, there was only a small percentage that did apply themselves to learn in my graduating class. These individual, which I still network with, have been successful in the IT/Telecom field, the others are different story.

Justice wrote:


Not only him, there are others I know, who went to ITT Tech and works at burger King, and bank.



I cannot comment on this, because I do not know these individuals and their whole story, it would not be fair to make assumption. Like I stated in my other post, it takes more than a degree to get a good job and even an entry level job in this field.

On a side note, my ITT credits did transfer to accredited university, Capella University (profit school). I am currently pursing my MS IT Project Management and Leadership degree and Graduate Certificate in Information Security Professional. Capella University is accredited by the http://www.ncahigherlearningcommission.org/ - Higher Learinging Commission , which grants regional accreditation. Capella Security program is also NSA certified: http://www.nsa.gov/ia/academia/cnsstes.cfm?MenuID=10.1.1 - Committee on National Security Systems Certified (CNSS)

-------------
DC40
CCNP,CWSP,CWNA,C|EH,MCP,CNA,A+
pursuing PMP



Posted by: RedDog
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 12:22pm

Regionally accredited or do not waste your time or money!

ITT would be a HUGE mistake! Attend a junior college and take classes that will transfer to a major university. DO NOT waste your time on getting a CIS at a two year college...get the BS CIS. Make sure that you get a 4 year degree plan and only take those classes at the junior college that will transfer. This is very important...

Get your 4 year, 2 years exp and a cert or two...you can pretty much expect 55-120k depending on how sharp and hardworking you are...

GL

-------------
MCP, MCSE 2000



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 12:25pm

Justice wrote:
Okay,

I hear all the good things about a ITT TECH, and I'm getting a feeling that the students who went to ITT Tech are stupid. For me it is hard to understand becuase a friend of mine has 3.9 GPA in Networking and he works in sales at his old job.

Not only him, there are others I know, who went to ITT Tech and works at burger King, and bank.

Should we say these people were crazy who didn't get good jobs, or should we say ITT Tech showed them a fake dream and left them in cold after taking their money.


When I was younger, I worked as a busboy. I've also been a credit card operator, a ticket taker, and a photo developer at a one-hour photo place. Does that mean that I lacked intelligence, or the drive to succeed?

-------------
MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 12:50pm

I agree with RedDog, regionally accredited, not just accredited, REGIONALLY ACCREDITED


I don't know what TranscenderMike is trying to prove.


My friend who has a ITT TECH Degree with 3.9 GPA,
is also a hard working guy, and honest guy who wanted more success in his life, but didn't happen yet. For two years straight I don't see anything yet. What else can I say about a profit Colleges.



Posted by: dc_40
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 1:11pm


Justice wrote:

I don't know what TranscenderMike is trying to prove.


I believe he is trying say, you should not look down on people working these types of jobs. some people are happy and content with these types of positions.

Justice wrote:

My friend who has a ITT TECH Degree with 3.9 GPA,
is also a hard working guy, and honest guy who wanted more success in his life, but didn't happen yet. For two years straight I don't see anything yet. What else can I say about a profit Colleges.


you can say the samething about non-profit colleges too.

-------------
DC40
CCNP,CWSP,CWNA,C|EH,MCP,CNA,A+
pursuing PMP



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 1:17pm

dc_40 wrote:

Justice wrote:

I don't know what TranscenderMike is trying to prove.


I believe he is trying say, you should not look down on people working these types of jobs. some people are happy and content with these types of positions.



...and that just because someone works at a job doesn't mean they intend to work there for the rest of their lives. Otherwise, I'd not be writing practice exams today.

-------------
MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 10:57pm

I'm so sorry you guys,

I guess you proved I'm wrong.

For first time, Justice has lost in a court of Internet.

Justice has been proved in this site.

Thats true, non profit colleges are same sometimes.

But where would anyone make money out of education, profit out of degree.

They used to say "money can't buy education"

I guess now I can say "Money can buy education"



Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 02 August 2005 at 1:28am

You know, it is now ITT being bashed becouse some of thier students do not work in the field they got thier degrees in.
Next people will be suing Microsoft or Cisco becouse after earning thier MCSE or CCNP they did not get offered that 90,000 a year job you hear so much about in all those ads you hear.


-------------
mike



Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 02 August 2005 at 1:30am

dc_40

How do you like Capella? I was thinking about starting my Masters there, I like their programs but I have hard some bad things about them.

-------------
mike



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 02 August 2005 at 2:23am

Miket20706

Microsoft or Cisco doen't make you pay over 30 Thousand Dollars. And Plus they are powerful than ITT TECH Degree.

Go to google; or any other search engine, and type feedback of ITT TECH, you will see so many of same stuff over here.

I wonder why everybody is coming so hard only at ITT TECH.



Posted by: dc_40
Date Posted: 02 August 2005 at 6:55am

miket20706 wrote:
dc_40

How do you like Capella? I was thinking about starting my Masters there, I like their programs but I have hard some bad things about them.


I would recommend the program. The courses are challenging and you better be prepare to work. I real enjoy capellaís online environment. I have never had any issue logging into the system to access any my course work. I did hear their old online system did have problems. Their new/current online system works great.

All my instructors and classmates have been very knowledgeable. Course work requires you to respond to two discussions the instructor posted each week, then respond to at least two of your classmate response to the post.   So you usually have discussions going back and forth between multiple classmates and the instructor. You are usually also required to turn an assignment at the end of the week and a final paper at the end of the course.

Here is link about capella student reviews, most are positive and would recommend capella.
http://www.rateitall.com/i-28324-capella-university.aspx - student reviews

If you do a search on google, you will find sites that do give negative reviews and comments on capella. It took me approx. 1 year of researching schools and programs, to finally to come to a conclusions that Capella was the right school for me.





-------------
DC40
CCNP,CWSP,CWNA,C|EH,MCP,CNA,A+
pursuing PMP



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 1:58pm

Can you guys teach me how to highlight,

like they do in this tcpmag,

some thing like cut and paste



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 8:25pm

Justice wrote:
Can you guys teach me how to highlight,

like they do in this tcpmag,

some thing like cut and paste


Is that what you're referring to?

It's just a matter of making a [ to start it B for bold and cap it with ], to quit bolding just type the same thing except put /B instead of B for colors just start with a [ then type color=red or green or whatever and ] end it to stop the coloring effect or underlining [ with U ending with ] (I would type it out, but then you would just see the effects).

If you're trying to quote someone, just type [ & quote & ] person's nym copy & paste the text they said and end it with [& /quote]

For example I can say that you said this
Justice wrote:
You said he was stupid, but you didn't really say that did you?


-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 9:15pm

I still don't get. It will take me some time.

How did you learn all these codes?

May Be i need to go to ITT TECH and learn just this



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 9:19pm

[& quote & ]person's nym copy & paste the text they said and end it with [&/quote]

nice



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 9:20pm

I tried, U can see that, it did not happen

MR TEACHER



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 9:21pm

Wildcat_Dude wrote:
Justice wrote:
[COLOR=Green]Can you guys teach me how to highlight,[/COLOR]

[U][B][COLOR=blue]like they do in this tcpmag,[/COLOR][/B][/U]

[B][COLOR=red]some thing like cut and paste[/COLOR][/B]


Is that what you're referring to?

It's just a matter of making a [ to start it B for bold and cap it with ], to quit bolding just type the same thing except put /B instead of B for colors just start with a [ then type color=red or green or whatever and ] end it to stop the coloring effect [/FONT] or underlining [ with U ending with ] (I would type it out, but then you would just see the effects).

If you're trying to quote someone, just type [ & quote & ] person's nym copy & paste the text they said and end it with [& /quote]

For example I can say that you said this
Justice wrote:
[B] [COLOR=red]You said he was stupid, but you didn't really say that did you? [/COLOR] [/B]
[;)]



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 9:22pm

I GOT IT. I GUESS I REALLY NEED TO GO TO ITT TECH MAN



Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 9:24pm

Test I just want to see if I can do it now

-------------
mike



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 9:25pm

Wildcat_Dude


Why you say BEING A * is * in the end

what does it mean

i understand we only suppose to talk about ITT TECH,

But i'm getting some other concerns

-------------
rr



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 9:45pm

miket20706 wrote:
[B][COLOR=blue]Test I just want to see if I can do it now[/COLOR][/B]


NICE



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 9:46pm

Test I just want to see if I can do it now



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 12:09am

Wildcat_Dude


I just clicked on Quote, and why are my codes showing.

I think ITT TECH SHOULD hire you to teach their classes some DOS codes, visual basic and etc.
I bet you know DOS very well, do you know how to create virus in DOS.



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 6:27am

why would I want to fool with viri? Yes, I know DOS very well, but as for codes in a web forum, each forum software has its own quirks, look at the tabs above the Post Reply, see --Font-- --Size-- --Color-- If you choose one of them or others, it'll ask what you want to show (in whatever) and within that explanation, the codes are there, its a no brainer & I didn't learn a thing at ITT Tech because I know better than to waste my money

I also don't do visual basic from scratch. Personally I just as soon like to see all the traffic for ITT Tech go somewhere else. It's like whipping a dead horse to death over & over. It all boils down that's been said REPEATILY - DO YOUR RESEARCH before you plunk down your hard earned money (or going into debt forever)

Justice wrote:
I just clicked on Quote, and why are my codes showing.


if you clicked on quote of someone else's message, it will show you the codes it uses - Look at it and learn


-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 6:31am

Justice wrote:
Wildcat_Dude wrote:
[QUOTE=Justice] Can you guys teach me how to highlight,

like they do in this tcpmag,

some thing like cut and paste


Is that what you're referring to? = answer YES


My answer is within the quote

-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: Blip
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 6:33am

The staff @ ITT Tech shed all ethics upon walking through the doors of the school. An individual that is from the start, clearly ill suited or inept at computer technology is encouraged to pursue an obviously bad or oversold choice. These individuals are usually the ones that can least afford the expenses incurred. At the end the benefits are miniscule for them. Any certificate training through a community college at a fraction of the cost of ITT would be beneficial.

-------------
Blip



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 6:37am

Justice wrote:
Wildcat_Dude


Why you say BEING A * is * in the end

what does it mean

i understand we only suppose to talk about ITT TECH,

But i'm getting some other concerns


I assume you're talking about my signature line, those are smilie faces, look to the left of your Post Reply - See that Add a Smilie Face, click that and you'll see a whole bunch of faces you can add so mine means being a GEEK is COOL is see

We don't have to talk about only ITT Tech even though it is the topic (which I'd wish would go away)

Other concerns? Man, you worry too much about nothing, you'll get ulcers from all those concerns

-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 11:03am

Wildcat_Dude,

You crack me up man,


So you don't go to ITT TECH?



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 12:52pm

Wildcat_Dude wrote:
[QUOTE=Justice] Wildcat_Dude


you'll get ulcers from all those concerns [:D]


ITT TECH IS Ulcer

-------------
rr



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 1:26pm

I thought that was obvious First it costs way too much for my pocket, I'm not rich but I ain't that friggin dumb to waste my money when I can attend a local community college and get the same thing for pennies on the dollar. I've talked to a few of those facilities (for lack of a better term) and I prefer the train myself and learn method. It might be slower, but from every mistake I make (that hardly costs me anything) I learn a lot in return.

I also prefer educational facilities where the credits obtained can be transferred to/from them.

Kinda like in the military where you do OJT (on the job training), in training its expected of you to make some mistakes from which you learn not to make those mistakes (or even similar ones) again and you'll learn why you do it a particular way therein you learn methods of troubleshooting or analyzing a problem. Same method applies to just about anything else, you just have to analyze & identify the problem, and the best methods to solve that problem without creating other problems. You also want to make sure you leave yourself an "out", meaning if you do something, can you back out of it.

Back in the dot com days there were a lot of companies like ITT, New Horizons, etc, that'll promise you the world so to speak if you'll sign on the bottom line. My feeling is this, if you're already broke, why would you want to go even further down the pipe. Cause if you don't generate enough paper to pay off that loan (thereby pluggin the pipe), somebody at some point is gonna flush your butt down the toilet and you'll have nobody to blame but yourself for making such a stink out of it (get my drift?).

That's why some folks don't have a problem with ITT and others do, its all about what YOU decide to do about it. I decided it was best for me to keep the money that I didn't have to start with

-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 10:58pm

So, you never went to ITT TECH

Why to you post your comments here, do you have lot of free time? or just having good time

Why you write this all the time MCSA, MCDST, MCP 2k & XP, CompTIA A+ & N+

I laughed went I think it was you, that wanted to buy a paper degree from a mill

Do you call yourself wildcat because of wildcard in DOS

You never went ITT TECH, but you are on this site giving feedback. I don't get it.




Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 11:12pm

Justice I never went to ITT tech either. The thing to remeber is people like Wildcat and myself are not defending ITT but only saying that most of the people who complain about it got themselves into trouble.
I read somewhere that most of the time (9 out of 10) when someone claims to have been scamed they were not scamed at all, they just didn't think. I am sorry but with all the news about out sourcing and IT jobs I can not see how anyone would think they make lots of money with just a degree. Plus once they saw the price you think the normal person would have shopped around.
It all comes to the point that I have not seen, and I bet no one else has either, an ITT grade who has a nice well paying job compain about thier education. It is only those who can not find work and it is not just ITT I know people I went to school with who can't find work and try to blame the school.

Just a thought

-------------
mike



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 11:23pm

Wildcat_Dude wrote:
[;)]

I can attend a local community college and get the same thing for pennies on the dollar

[:D]

[;)]


I have been to community college, state university, and a private Tech College, not ITT TECH.

By my experience private college was better.
Their career service are more helpful.
My education was great, and I was able to transfer my creidts to State colleges.

I understand it cost more than community college, but at commounity college they really don't care about each student.

At university, they mostly try to get rid of students who can't get high GPA'S even they spend more hours with their studies.

I will always choose non profit private, accredited regionally, college or university.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 11:42pm

miket20706 wrote:
The thing to remeber is people like Wildcat and myself are not defending ITT but only saying that most of the people who complain about it got themselves into trouble.



I never went to ITT TECH either. But we always have to make school accountable for the business that they run around is not true.

For example when I was eighteen in high school, ITT TECH came and told the bright side of their school.
I was only eighteen years old back then; I didnít know any thing about profit schools.

So for the people who are 18 to 22 who donít know the DARK side of the schools, I will never blame them for going there. We have to blame the people who make money out of name of SCHOOL OR COLLEGE



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 5:13am

Justice wrote:
We have to blame the people who make money out of name of SCHOOL OR COLLEGE


Says who? Blame should fall on the person who didn't do the research. It's not against the law to paint a rosy picture. Do you go to a job interview and tell them anything that's wrong with you as a person, your work performances, etc. - of course not. You paint yourself as the best worker they'll ever have if they hire you.

You asked me why I post here when I've never attended ITT Tech. Why do you post here if you never attended ITT Tech? I post because I can for one and for another, I hope that my suggestions/advice might make a difference, so when people like yourself who come in and get everybody all stirred up over nothing might eventually learn to just move on to something more productive then bashing people or where they attended school at.

Remember, we are a capitalist country (like some others) where the almighty dollar talks and the rest of the bullsh*t walks.

Everybody makes money some way or another, so why stop with just for profit schools or colleges. There are a lot of companies out there who'll steal you blind if you let them, so why not bash them? Why not bash all these certification training companies? They are for profit and its related to education - see what I'm talking about. There can be a dark side to everything, it all depends if you're looking in a hole or looking at the bright side. You're just choosing to look on the dark side.

Always remember that buyers beware, I'll preach it again and again DO YOUR RESEARCH. I've met folks who went to ITT and were happy with the education they got but they knew there were drawbacks to some degree. I've attended community college, and I know there were some drawbacks - like outdated equipment, some instructors who did nothing more than read from a book, etc. but overall I'm satisfied.

Why inform those only 18 to 22? I certainly didn't see any disclaimer to your messages that your messages were intended only for those 18 to 22. Now I feel discriminated against because I'm in my mid 50's

But seriously, some people of all ages make decisions not based on reasoning but on emotion and the need to feel good (you'll have to think about this one to get the meaning) .


-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 9:22am

What practices? The federal government did an investigation and found no wrong doing; are you saying that the federal government is in on the scam?
As far as when you were 18 what ITT didnít tell you? When I was 18 I joined the Navy do you think my recruiter told me the bad things before I enlisted, after four years I went into the army as a 19 Delta (recon scout) which is a combat position do you think that the Army recruiter told me how sh&ty combat could be? Hell no! We talked about how cool it was to get to jump school and work in special operations and such.
Not one, I REPEAT NOT ONE person on here has come with a valid argument about how ITT is a scam. Everyone who complains seems to be someone who did not do their research before signing loan paperwork, or was stupid enough to think a company would hirer them four 60 or 90 grand a year with no true experience.
You want to know the sad part, ITT is not the only school where students thing that. I bet anyone who has gone to college has had a classmate who thinks they will get hired and paid 70,000 or more a year right out of school. The funny thing is when you try to explain to them thatís not going to happen they all know some 19 yr old kid with no education or certs making that kind of money.


-------------
mike



Posted by: dc_40
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 9:58am

Justice wrote:


I never went to ITT TECH either. But we always have to make school accountable for the business that they run around is not true.



If you never attended ITT, how can you measure or comment on the quality of the education if you never experienced it? All your negative comments about ITT are made on assumption or opinion of someone elseís experience. You should not be making comments about something you know nothing about. If you are going to comment about ITT, you should provide a bias comment to help inform these individuals that are considering ITT to further their education.


-------------
DC40
CCNP,CWSP,CWNA,C|EH,MCP,CNA,A+
pursuing PMP



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 10:34am

man, this thing going to far, I mean up to no. 15.

Okay, When I went to itt tech and talked to them, they told about making 80K a year. They showed the list of the companies who hire their students.

ALthough i did not go to ITT TECH, it doesn't mean i can't comment on this site. I have friends who went there, they were no lazy students, they didn't want to make 80K a year, they just wanted to get in to a great company.

Well, for about two years, i see them at their old jobs

I'm not saying who should be blamed here, my point is schools use powerful methods to get the paper work signed up.



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 11:32am

We don't care if you comment, but you've gone way beyond that. We, or I should say, most people (that includes me), could care less what you heard 3rd hand. Sure, I've heard lots of bad things about lots of companies - just take it with a grain of salt.

For example, someone on ebay may not have a very good rating - do I not buy from them just because of that? Maybe, maybe not, it all boils down to the comments of those who gave negative responses. More often than not, it because they were too lazy to read the fine print, or shipping was too slow for them and therefore they felt cheated. Does it mean they were cheated, heck no, just the opposite, they DIDN'T DO THE RESEARCH (there I go again preaching research).

Let your "friends" get on here and comment negatively about ITT. I'll bet money not a one of them has picked up a tech book since school to keep abreast of the latest technology.

Ok, so schools use methods you and others don't approve of - now look at the "REAL WORLD". Look around and I mean really look around, have you woke up yet and realized where you are. Hurray, you're in the real world with the rest of us and not dreaming anymore (yeah, I had to rub it in and get my point across).

We all know we won't get you to understand that sales people can and will do things without the company's approval of their methods. They were taught to sing the praises and laurels that their company (or school) wants folks to hear.

There isn't a thing in the world preventing folks from making it in this world if they really want to make it. So it may not be with a great company, boo hoo, tell them to get real and lower their sights a bit and get busy keeping up, nobody is going to hand them a silver platter with their desires on it. It takes work, sometimes a lot of it. People stay in old jobs because they are afraid what might be on the other side of the road (why did the cow jump over the fence? Grass was greener on the other side).

While my job may not be prefect, its pretty damn close. If I could find a full time position just like this that paid about $10 a hour more, I'd be in hog heaven but working 32hrs a week and being flexible to take any day of the week I want off - it almost doesn't get any better.

Almost all companies have people who use powerful methods to sell the products, its a fact of life, get over it, it isn't anything new.

Ever hear the expression there's a sucker born every minute. The reason they're suckers its because they don't bother to research before and after (before they hear or see something from a prospective whatever - to after to verify what they've been told by whoever or whatever).

Now its time for me to lurk somewhere else

-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 11:45am

miket20706, you talking about 19yr olds making 70 grand, reminds me of my nephew who has no high school education and isn't saving a dime of the 50+ grand a year he makes working on doing field repairs of diesel engines in the oil fields. He's 26 and spends every dime he makes on junk cars, any gun that impresses him, racing & racing equipment, etc but lags on making payments for his 2 trucks and cell phone (he stays free with his grandmother mouching off of her for meals and cleaning his clothes while she's on a fixed income - sorry sack of sh*t). He only pays the cell phone once they cut him off, stuff like that. No morals either in my opinion. But as far as I know he doesn't fool with dope and seldom drinks, never takes his girlfriend out to eat (she's dumped him 3 times now and for some reason keeps coming back for more punishment). He has no desire to get married (think he learned from his father that if you got the cow, why buy the milk).

He thinks this will go on forever, and we've tried to tell him he better save now while he can - but it falls on deaf ears, which is like some people we know

-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: rrosenkoetter
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 2:33pm

I never went to ITT either, but I can certainly comment in generalities.

Basically, EVERY tech school that charges $8,000-$14,000 a year is bad return on investment.

If you're looking to become an IT tech, community college certification courses provide a much bigger bang for your buck. You can take a semester long course at a community college for probably less than $1,000 and learn just as much.

Your goal is to get an entry-level position, and basic certifications (A+, Network+, MCP) and volunteer work is your best chance to get that.

Once you have a job in IT, you can learn a LOT while gaining experience and getting PAID instead of going farther into debt.

It all depends on you. If you get a HelpDesk job, and never crack a book on servers or routers or programming, etc. or if you never talk to the other groups in order to learn, you'll go nowhere.

If you DO strive to learn as much as possible, and continue to work on your education via self-study (books and Virtual PC) and/or night classes at that same community college, it won't take long for you to succeed.

I started laying cable in ceilings, got into desktop support and after three years of busting my butt, and learning as much as I could (self-study and one community college class), I got my MCSE in NT 4.0 and got my first server admin job...

I've been doing that for 5 years now, continuing my education through self-study and on the job experience...

Never went into debt, and I am now making four times what I was making as a cable boy...

It's all about working hard, and learning as much as you can. But you DON'T need to pay ANY company thousands and thousands of dollars to learn this stuff.

-------------
Ron Rosenkoetter
MCSE (NT 4.0, 2000, 2003)



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 3:04pm

rrosenkoetter wrote:

Basically, EVERY tech school that charges $8,000-$14,000 a year is bad return on investment.


Well, if it is a good tech school, their credits can transfer, Degree can also pay out big time. Degree can also lead people in different types of careers not only IT. Degree can also help on promtions.

You made some good points.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 3:09pm


Iím sorry about my spelling errors,

I meant, degree can help in promoting a worker



Posted by: BDuclos
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 4:13pm

Everyone has to remember that in the tech field if you want to get a good job you have to try and get the certs. Most companies now want your degree(Definitely go for bachelors of higher) and certifications so that they have some assurance that you know what your are doing. I am attending ITT Tech and went to Bank of America at there office here in Tampa, speaking with them if I got a Bachelors in Information Security and got the proper certs I look more presentable, and I could easily land a job. They are mostly looking with some one with hands on training and the certs you need. So no matter what you graduate with the companies still want insurance you know what your doing.(A+, Network+, Cisco, etc.)



Posted by: dc_40
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 5:16pm

Justice wrote:
rrosenkoetter wrote:

Basically, EVERY tech school that charges $8,000-$14,000 a year is bad return on investment.


Well, if it is a good tech school, their credits can transfer, Degree can also pay out big time. Degree can also lead people in different types of careers not only IT. Degree can also help on promotions.

You made some good points.


I do not consider my degree a bad return on investment, from my personal experience it has paid off. The degree has open many doors and opportunities regarding career paths and goals. Without the degree I would not have qualified for Direct Commission Engineering Officer Program with the U.S. Coast Guard. I know it was not my degree but my whole package (degree, work experience, soft skills, certifications, future goals) that had got me accepted into the program. I believe there were 108 candidates that applied to the program and only 8 of us were accepted. The 7 other candidates that were accepted, did have degrees from the major state universities.

My credits did transfer to an accredited university for my M.S. in IT Project Management and Leadership.   

If someone asked me a recommended route to achieve a degree, they are listed in order:

1. Community college or state university because the cost is lower, the accreditation, and industry recognition.

2. Private university or college that is accredited.

3. Private Tech School, which is not accredited by one of the major bodies. This would be a school similar to ITT.

Yes, I am listing ITT as my last choice but some people do not have the time/schedule to attend a traditional school format or have a private university/college near by which caters to working adults. ITT schedule was perfect for me and the Telecom curriculum met all my requirements.

this is my last 2 cents regarding this subject because we can go on and on....



-------------
DC40
CCNP,CWSP,CWNA,C|EH,MCP,CNA,A+
pursuing PMP



Posted by: dc_40
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 5:17pm

how to delete this post

-------------
DC40
CCNP,CWSP,CWNA,C|EH,MCP,CNA,A+
pursuing PMP



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 06 August 2005 at 1:33am

Okay, this site is going little crazy now,

What does everybody thing about future of TECH COLLEGES,

Like ITT TECH, etc.

How many of you think ITT TECH can beat MIT in Future?




Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 06 August 2005 at 1:35am

again spelling errors,

I meant

What does everybody think about future of Tech Colleges, like ITT TECH and etc.

How many of you think ITT TECH can beat MIT in Future?



Posted by: BDuclos
Date Posted: 06 August 2005 at 3:39pm

It will never beat out MIT or other colleges it isj ust there to kind of say that there is non traditional college available that you can go for similair degrees over a more open schedule so that you can both work full time and go to schoo.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 06 August 2005 at 4:14pm

I have seen more intelligent students at Private Tech School than state university. I bet if some of those Tech Students had money to go to MIT, they can run the show



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 06 August 2005 at 5:08pm

Justice wrote:
again spelling errors,

I meant

What does everybody think about future of Tech Colleges, like ITT TECH and etc.

How many of you think ITT TECH can beat MIT in Future?


Apples vs. oranges.

-------------
MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 06 August 2005 at 5:50pm

TranscenderMike wrote:
Apples vs. oranges.


Quoted for truth

-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 10:41am

I've beeen reading this post and the thing that gets on my nerves most is the poeple who comment saying, "You should of done your reasearch!" or "it's your fault you enrolled" and then go on to say that the IT field is bad and not ITT's fault.

Those are stupid questions that have nothing to do with the fact that ITT is ripping off students and don't provide what they claim up to.

I won't go into saying that ITT Technical Institute is a bad school completely. Simply because I haven't gone through every course at every single campus location. I simply can't make the asumption that every person who attends ITT gets ripped off. Nor can I assume that every ITT location is well equipped or even provides an excelent level of education. Even though I haven't one good comment about ITT-Technical Institute I won't support that type of mentallity.

I will strongly defend my experiences and/or views about the campus & programs I've taken @ the Indianapolis, Indiana ITT-Technical Institute location. The whole experience was absolutely beyond anything imaginable. If you heard what I've experienced @ my campus you'd moslt likly think I was making it up. Because it's so absurd that you'd want to belive I was a lyer. The Indy campus was not equiped for the CVT program that I took. The management was unstisfactory. The majority of class instructors for the core classes that delt with IT were less than experienced to be in the position to even be teaching. A few on my instructors were previous ITT grads that were hired straight out of graduation from ITT.

I must say that the management there didn't address issues with the program properly or even (quite often) at all. Management would work at avoiding the students whom acknowledged the programs problems and never address them.

The whole experience was absolutely horriable and I would not suggest that anyone else attend the Indianapolis based campus for their CVT Program (Computerized Visualization Technology). Nor would I trust taking any other course IT related at the Indianapolis ITT-Tech campus.

The job placement services, supposedly provided by ITT, relly are a joke. Yes, many of the reps do promise job placement and candy coat everything. I've heard it all. It would be nice if they truely did what the reps said they would for their graduates. But, I'm not bitching about ITT not finding me a job. I'm upset at the quality of education they provide. They couldn't even provide a basis to learn and grow from.

P.S. Feel free to ask me questions or leave comment on this response. I will provide you with honest answers from what I've experienced.




Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 10:58am

^ScreweD you talk about stupid questions, the point a lot of us are trying to make is if you asked some questions before you enrolled you wouldn't be screwed.
Anyone who would sign loan paper work for the amount of money ITT charges and not look into has no right to cry foal.



-------------
mike



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 11:04am

^ScreweD wrote:
the fact that ITT is ripping off students and don't provide what they claim up to.




This is why I keep saying over and over again,
ITT TECH IS FOR PROFIT SCHOOL



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 11:45am

and again and again, it doesn't make any difference whether if its a for profit school or any other kind of school, its nobody's fault but yours in the end if you didn't do your research and fork over the money regardless what was said. Everyone signed their agreement to the terms of the contract. I don't like telemarketers either, but if I give them my credit card info and sign up for whatever, you'd better know what the termination clauses are and if it isn't to your liking, back out before you sign or give verbal approval.

Justice, do you say the same thing about New Horizon? It's a for profit training center but I don't see you harping on their tactics and they use bascially the same tactics as ITT Tech and several other companies do the same thing. They use what works to envoke your emotional state of mind to their favor to generate income.

Why hasn't anyone started a web site call www.BitchaboutITThere.org?

Well whatta you know, there is a place for you bitchers & moaners called http://www.ittsucks.com - ITT Sucks and that's all they do over there. A prefect place for all ITT "screwed" folks, especially Justice

-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 12:44pm

Who cares about New Horizon on ITT TECH sucks site?
The reason I have to say some stuff about ITT TECh is because they are very good at coming to high schools and try to get some customers.

They came to my high school twice, and I went there twice to talk to them. But I never went there, and now I do all the research on schools, I come up with sites like this one.

I think this is a perfect place for Wildcat DUDE too.



Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 1:03pm

miket20706 wrote:
^ScreweD you talk about stupid questions, the point a lot of us are trying to make is if you asked some questions before you enrolled you wouldn't be screwed.
Anyone who would sign loan paper work for the amount of money ITT charges and not look into has no right to cry foal.



But what the hell are you trying to say? We know this by now. So why tell us this after the fact it's too late to ask questions?

I suggest tellings others whom are thinking of enrolling to ask questions. Help prevent others from making same mistake. Don't respond to us saying that we should of asked more questions in the first place. We've found this out the hard way. Some people can't even begin on thinking of the right question to ask.

Take me for example. I didn't come from a family which drove educational ethics into me as a child growing up. I didn't know jack about the way colleges work or how to even seek assistance. I was a young addolecent fresh outa high school that thought I should further my education for a better career. My intentions were good and I fell prey to an ITT-Tech representative. I enrolled into the biggest mistake of my life (ITT-Tech).

Now, I know that I should of went to a community college or somewhere elsewhere. I admit to my mistakes and hope others learn from them. So don't tell me what I should of done. I've never asked what I should of done. I don't think anyone here ever asked what they should of done in the first place.

Label me a whinning? Yep, what the hell ever.. If that's how you want to label it. Point is that your advice of saying what we should of done is pointless and useless. That's not even advice. Your just coming across as some sensless bunghole who's looking to downgrade some less fortunate soul.

Let's stick to some useful advice in regards to this matter.



Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 1:12pm

Wildcat_Dude, do you refer to yourself as god whenever you look in the mirror?



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 1:22pm

^ScreweD wrote:
But what the hell are you trying to say? We know this by now. So why tell us this after the fact it's too late to ask questions?

I suggest tellings others whom are thinking of enrolling to ask questions. Help prevent others from making same mistake. Don't respond to us saying that we should of asked more questions in the first place. We've found this out the hard way. Some people can't even begin on thinking of the right question to ask.


That's exactly what they're doing... warning others before they make the same mistake.

Don't take it so personally, ScreweD... everyone makes mistakes and bad decisions.

-------------
MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 1:30pm

why as a matter of fact I do ^ScreweD

-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 1:36pm

TranscenderMike wrote:
^ScreweD wrote:
But what the hell are you trying to say? We know this by now. So why tell us this after the fact it's too late to ask questions?

I suggest tellings others whom are thinking of enrolling to ask questions. Help prevent others from making same mistake. Don't respond to us saying that we should of asked more questions in the first place. We've found this out the hard way. Some people can't even begin on thinking of the right question to ask.


That's exactly what they're doing... warning others before they make the same mistake.

Don't take it so personally, ScreweD... everyone makes mistakes and bad decisions.


I'll accept that if we refrain from saying "you should of" anymore. I apologize, but I do take it personally when I hear someone respond with "you should of" directed to some unfortunate student that was taken advantage of. ITT-Tech is a very deep sore spot to me. =p



Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 1:42pm

Wildcat_Dude wrote:
why as a matter of fact I do ^ScreweD


Confirmed! Somebody let the god damn devil into these message forums. I figured so..




Posted by: itt grad
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 1:47pm

Some of you guys are being immature. Quit your whining and own up to your actions and responsibilities. Some of you are complaining that ITT has taught you nothing... yet, I can see why you learned nothing by your grammer and spelling.
The salesman told you you'd be making $80k after 2 years? Did he lie to you? There is 'potential' to make $80k a year, it's all up to you. He has ITT grads to prove it. Did he write it on a piece of paper and sign it? Then why do you believe it the way you did? How much you make after your graduation is all on you. There are 100's of ITT grads every year, thousands of college grads from other schools. Why would an employer choose you? It's all on you. How you present yourself, how you sell yourself, your experience.
How do you plan to live the rest of your life? Is the high pressure salesman at the car dealership trying to screw you over? How are you going to deal with that? Are you just going to take his word and sign on the dotted line? Are you going to fall for the late night info-mercials because they 'promise' you you will make $100k year in the mortgage business without any startup capital?
COME ON!

I will say this. If you are coming right out of highschool, why would you consider ITT? Do you work fulltime or have other obligations that prevent you from going to a traditional college or university? If not, go to a traditional college!
Then why would anyone goto ITT? Someone like Wildcat or myself who have no other options. We work fulltime and have families. We cannot quit working and goto school for 2-4 years. Traditional colleges usually do not work around your work hours, they do not offer all the classes in the evening. The leaves only private schools such as Devry, ITT, Phoenix available for us. Yes, the cost significantly more, but a BA degree is a BA degree. No employer will take you seriously without one. BA degree out of ITT is better than no degree at all. By then we have 4-5 years of real world experience under our belt, plus a few certs if we really asserted ourselves.

About your friends who graduated from ITT and still works at BK. He has a 4.0 GPA? That's great! I work with individuals at work with BA's and MCP's that don't have a clue about computers. Either they will not last long in the field or they will be plateau at the entry level position they are in.
I know many people and friends that graduated from colleges and state univ's and are still unemployed. I'm not sure the point you are trying make. No college can guarantee a job, and ITT certainly hasn't.

One of the top reasons why those grads don't have a job in my opinion:
-They are looking for $20/hr jobs right off the bat. They have no work experience in the field yet, they turn down entry level jobs making $12/hr
-They procrastinate and give up. After a week of sending out resumes, yea its discouraging to not get a single call back. But there are PLENTY of people out there with their BA's and MA's and 10 years of experience that are in the same boat. Motivate yourself to keep searching.
My #1 friend when trying to enter the work force was head hunters. Recruiters. Temp Agencies. They're all the same thing, they will get your foot in the door. Right out of high school I got a job making $17/hr at Lucent Technologies in IL, thanks to the IT recruiters. (not bad at age 18) Also, it sometimes depends where you live. If you live in Hershey, PA you will probaly not find any IT jobs that you are looking for. You must be willing to relocate.
Also, you gotta start at the bottom and work your way up. Years ago I moved to another state after IL (relocation unrelating work, rather personal reason) and had hard a hard time finding a job. I had to resort to making $13/hr again in the automobile IT industry, and had to work myself up from there again.

good luck.



Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 2:16pm

itt grad wrote:
Some of you are complaining that ITT has taught you nothing... yet, I can see why you learned nothing by your grammer and spelling.


I'll apologize for my improper use of grammar and spelling by blaming it on my rep in the first place. With the cost of student tuition I couldn't afford to pay attention in grammar 101.

Oh, since we've come down to pointing out the proper use of spelling I'll mention that your reference to "grammer" would be properly spelled like " http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=grammar - grammar ".




Posted by: itt grad
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 3:14pm

^ScreweD wrote:
itt grad wrote:
Some of you are complaining that ITT has taught you nothing... yet, I can see why you learned nothing by your grammer and spelling.


I'll apologize for my improper use of grammar and spelling by blaming it on my rep in the first place. With the cost of student tuition I couldn't afford to pay attention in grammar 101.

Oh, since we've come down to pointing out the proper use of spelling I'll mention that your reference to "grammer" would be properly spelled like " http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=grammar - grammar ".


Thanks for the sarcasm and the correction. Knew that was coming =P



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 4:03pm

ahh yes, we feel the love of brotherhood around here now

-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 10:53pm

Man,

I want to make this site my Homepage now



Posted by: D-Day
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 2:52am

Hmm, this is pretty damn interesting. Question: Have you guys read the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad"? It's a very interesting book. I've only started reading it about a night ago. So far, I gather it's about the habits and ways of thinking that sucessful people have, compared to un-sucessful people. I read a very interesting part in that book. Basically, it stated that workers know full-well how much a job pays, how the boss is, and what kind of job they're doing. Yet, somewhere down the road, they begin to complain, saying they're not being payed enough, and that they're boss is greedy or is an a**h**, and that work's too hard. These type of people are also the type that push the blame on to other's when life gives them a curve-ball, or they fight with everyone and everything with things are tough.

Then there are the type of people that quit. They blame their boss for their low pay, and quit. They say "Damn, this relationship is TOO hard for me, I quit."

Compare them to sucessful people. Sucessful people know full-well what kind of job they're going to do. They know the pay. They know the boss. They know how hard the work is. Yet, somewhere down the road, they don't blame their boss for their pay, or how hard their work is. They accept resposibility for their decision, and adapt to it. They don't look at the problem and get worked up over it - looking for someone to blame or thinking of getting another job and quitting. They look for a solution so that the problem can work for them.

Do you see where I'm going? ALL the people that complain about ITT will always be the type of people that blame someone or something when they've gone through a hard time. They'll be the type of people that say "ITT was a joke, so I quit". That's what they'll say about other events in their lives.

Yet the sucessful ones are out there right now, making what they worked for, well, work for them. They don't look for a person to blame, but rather a way to adapt. That's what you have to do to be sucessful.



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 8:35am

That sort of the way I've handled the transition from law enforcement to computers and dealing with people. I use to just shoot them and then ask questions, now I ask questions and then just use my asp (fancy nightclub for the uninformed) to educate them

But really, that's very interesting and I do see that in people (including myself) over the years. The criminal element does the same thing, he/she (or it) will blame others for their life of crime, never taking responsibility for their own actions.

-------------
MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 8:54am

Look D-Day, Don't give me that bull about blaming ITT because of going through a hard-time. To tell you the
truth I am working. But I'm not working in the field of which I attended ITT Tech for. I graduated from my
Bachelors program as a highest honors student with a GPA of 3.9 out of 4.0 and I don't know any more about
what I was supposed to learn than before I enrolled to my Bachelors program. Therefore I'm not working in the
field of Computer Animation. I went to ITT-Tech and obtained my Associates in Computeraided Drafting. Then I
regretfully went back to obtain my Bachelors in CVT (Computerized Visualization Technology). The CVT prgram
was supposedly to learn 3D design and computer animation. The core software that ITT Tech claimed to teach for
this program is 3D Studio Max, Adobe Premeire, Adobe Photoshop, Adobe Illustrator, Macromedia Director, and
Sound Forge. The main core application in this field is 3D Studio Max. The Instructors that I had for 3DS Max
didn't know even the basic in and outs of this application. Therefore as a result our class didn't even know where to begin learning. As a result we learned nothing. Therefore I am not working in the field. If I did manage to lye to an employer about how much I learned I might be able to land a job. Sure I could flash my degree and highest honors certificate to every employer I see in the field. But I know that the employer would soon catch on becuase I don't know a damn thing about it and then would soon be fired. There is not a snowball chance in hell that I can maintain a career in the field of which I went to ITT Tech to get prepared for.

3DS Max is a very very complicated program. It's not just one you can pick up without being shown the basics.
Don't give me the crap about being too lazy to learn or needing to hold someones hand every step of the way
through learning. The fact is that ITT did not have experienced staff, did not instruct, and wasn't preparded for such a program.

For example one quarter our class couldn't even run the core application 3DS Max because the computers in the
CVT lab weren't equiped with hardware dongles.What is a hardware dongle? A dongle is a hardware lock that
attaches to the parallel port of the host computer running 3DSMax. It has a unique serial number that in
conjunction with the CD Serial number allows the user to get a third authorization number from Discreet to
enable the software. Not having one attatched to each computer means that you can't run the 3DSMax
application. Not even the instructor could even run the program because his machine wasn't equipped with one
either. Which this means no instruction for students and no possiable was for students to learn it. Come one
ITT-Tech is supposed to be a Hands-On school.

Why, didn't ITT have the dongles that come with a valid purchase of 3D Studio Max? Who know.. Maybee ITT didn't actually purchase the proper license for the amount of copys that they were runnning. Actually I never witnessed a single PC that ran the application that entire quarter.

Hell, we were supposed to learn audio editing as well, throughout the program, as stated in the promotional litature. Guess what? The machines didn't have sound cards at all. Again no instruction. We were never shown or taught anything in soundforge or any audio editinng application.

The real kicker came at the end of one quarter when it came to final exam time. This is so absurd that you most likely won't even believe me on this one. I was so pissed about this. The instructor came in to give us our final exam. He told us that, "Since, we haven't had access to running 3D Studio Max I've had to make up my own exam for you guys". One of my class mates asked him how were expected to be tested on something we haven't had a chance to learn. His response was, "I'm not going
to.. On this exam I am only going to ask you one question. How far off you are on the answer is how your going to be graded". And then he handed out the exam papers. He was right about them having only one question on them. The question was, "Guess your instructors age:" and that was it. Furiously I answered the question and handed it in. I then, at next break, went upstairs to bitch about it to the assistant dean. Now by this time the higher ups and staff hated me. They avoided me and my entire class at any cost. They knew that their program was entirely screwed up and they knew that our class was aware of it.

They also knew that they couldn't do anything to fix the program. They always answered that they would address
the issues and never got around to it. We were always told that they had to go through so much red tape with
corporate to get anything done and were given empty promises.

The Indianapolis campus went through two program directors during the time I attended for my Bachelors
program. Both of which I heard was fired. I don't know if they were actually fired or not. But I would believe
so based from my experiences in speaking with them. The first program director was Brenda Nash. She admitted
to myself and two other classmates that ITT wasn't prepared for their CVT Program. On this occasion we went to complain to her about a couple of our instructors not teaching and that they weren't even knowledgable enough
to be teaching. We asked how they were going to make this right. Her response? "Well, the reason your
instructors don't seem knowledable enough is because they don't have any expereince. ITT has been hiring
previous ITT graduates without the proper experience. This has sort of created an inbreed of instructors. Your
class is experiencing this." We were aware of this by now and asked Brenda Nash how we were going to be able
learn anything. We told her that ITT screwed up and that there wasn't enough time left to even learn if they
somehow managed to hire new knowledable staff. Her great response was, "Well, In this circustance.. ITT Tech
would be willing to let you come back after graduation and sit through classes once we've gotten knowledgable
staff."

Oh yeah, we told the rest of our class about this conversation. Soon after Brenda Nash had vanished from the campus halls. Then there was a new replacement named Brad Lewis on the scene to fill Brenda's position. This
guy came in thinking he was the defendor of ITT-Tech. Brad Lewis didn't address anything properly and was
always on offense. He was short, ill tempored and didn't want to hear a damn thing. You could tell that he
didn't want anyone to know of the problems at this campus. If anyone went to him to express a problem with the program he would somehow dodge addressing the problem. In his eyes resolving a problem somehow meant getting rid of whomever expressed the problem. The next thing you know he seemed to have it out for whomever expressed the problem. He would quietly follow students around trying to figure out ways harass them.

The ITT staff knew that our class was upset and was wanting to sue the school. We met with separate law firms on two occasions as an entire class. The lawyers told us that we had good cause but wouldn't take the case on a contengincy basis. Then we were left with no options. ITT Tech corporate can afford to fight any case
brought against them. The only reason you don't hear of ITT being sued by students is because the students can't afford to stand against ITT in a civil suit. We're broke and in debt. Attorney's don't work for free.

ITT continously screws students and know that they have the upper hand no matter work. Sure, ITT is for-profit
but maybee their intentions were good when starting the CVT program. But the fact is that they screwed up and
weren't prepared for it. That fact they will keep covered up and will never admit it. Some ITT campuses and programs may be good. But don't asume not all of them.

I believe in working for things. I don't expect anything for free. I went to college for learning guidance and
I expected to earn a degree to prepare me to work in a field that I fantasized about. I didn't go to ITT Tech
just to buy a degree. My intentions were good and my dreams were crushed by the lack of concern from ITT
corporate. A corporation whos priority is filling seats. They don't care about educating the students once
they've got their money. Instead I ended up buying a degree that is worthless to me or any future potential
employers.

After reading all this I expect some lame ass replys to this post. Some may acuse me of being lazy, not
willing to take action and learn, stupid or just making sh*t up. The truth is that I've been there and I know
what went on. I know what I am capable of and I know what ITT is capable of through experience. I love
learning new things. I am able to learn new technologies very quickly. I am very smart with technology and
computers. I was a very dedicated to my learning learning while attending ITT. I lived 60 miles from the
campus that I attended the whole time and worked a full time job. I drove 160 miles a day, five days a week. I
drove that distance for 4 years straight. I would not put out that kind of effort if I wasn't serious about
college and capable of learning.

Today I still work as a web applications developer. I do Cold fusion programming mostly and I deal with alot
of database work. I worked as a web developer throughout my entire bachelors program. Even before I enrolled.

So please don't try and credit ITT for what I'm currently doing for a living. I attended for Computer animation, not programming. I've never taken any web realted courses. I'm working on launching a job site that I just recently opened up a couple months ago. I independently own, designed, programed, maintain
and developed everything related to the SimplerCareers.com web site. As a demonstration of my abilities I welcome you to visit http://www.simplercareers.com/ - http://www.simplercareers.com/ .

There is so much more I could tell about and I could write forever on the forum about the downfalls of ITT Technical Institute. But, I better be moving along.

I'm not looking for a person to blame. The truth is there. I only wanted what I paid for and was owed. ITT was criminal and not me. I am true and sincere.




Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 8:56am

Great,

Now the people who went to itt tech are criminals, not the ITT TECH reps, CEO, or etc.

Why shouldn't anyone complain about a school that wants over 35K from their customers for AAS Degree, not accredited, for profit, and even FEDS had to question them one time.

For the people who has ITT TECH degree and got themself into good career, you don't have to complain, but the people who didn't get into good career yet, like they told you, then I think you should get your money back.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 9:25am

^ScreweD,

Why you went back to ITT TECH after taking your AAS degree from there?

Did you enjoy or learned in first two years at ITT TECH?

So are you saying ITT TECH didn't help you at all to find your current job?



Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 10:28am

Justice,

I can truthfully say that I learned a great deal about AutoCAD during my associates program (the first two years). I had no prior experience in AutoCAD up to that point. I didn't care about learning AutoCAD nor did I enjoy it. But I did it because I wanted to get to the Baschelors CVT program. Every student who goes through the CVT bachelors program at ITT feels the same way and takes the associates for the same reason.

The first day I spoke to an ITT rep it was because I wanted to learn 3D Computer animation. I was told that they offered it as a bachelors program. ITT requires that students take AutoCAD beforehand. They claim it is a great foundation as a basis for preparing their students for 3D Studio Max and therefore required. Turns out that they were full of sh*t. There are not many similarities between AutoCAD and 3D Studio Max. Once you got into the Bachelors program you quickly realized it.

I have worked as an Civil Engineer and an Architectual Engineer in two separate positions. I do not enjoy drafting enough to make a career of it. I left my last drafting position to work in the world of web applications development. Something I'd started teaching myself back in 95. I'm glad I did becuase it has been mt only source of income to fall back on.

Public access to the internet was fairly new when I started teaching myself html. I started out writing HTML then to Perl, On to PHP, dabbled a little in ASP, and now Program in Cold Fusion. While learning throughout the years I've read through various tutorials and taught myself web applications programming, web server management (Apache, IIS), database design (MS Access, MySQL Microsoft SQL Server), Email & FTP Server Management.

I've been using computers since Commadore 64. My father was a factory worker on the Transmission line at Chrysler and always bought toys. He busted his butt in the hot factory sweating day in and day out. He deserved those toys. He always bought the latest computer. I remember using the old commadore to connect to the local BBS to download shareware games. I even remember using DOS a great deal before Windows 3.1 came out.

ITT Technical Institute has never helped me find a job. The work I do now isn't anything realted to what I went to school for.



Posted by: itt grad
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 10:39am

^ScreweD wrote:
ITT requires that students take AutoCAD beforehand. They claim it is a great foundation as a basis for preparing their students for 3D Studio Max and therefore required. Turns out that they were full of sh*t. There are not many similarities between AutoCAD and 3D Studio Max. Once you got into the Bachelors program you quickly realized it.


There is no similarities because AutoCAD is 2D and Studio Max is 3D. Goto any school or university, AutoCAD is always a prerequisite. Sorry, but it's the truth. I learned it in the same order.
Sad to say, there are tons of graphic students that are jobless.. unless you know someone or live in the right place, it's hard to find a job in that field. With that said, I sympathize for your experience and I feel for you. You can still use your degree however for other opportunities and promotions. Don't see it all as a waste.



Posted by: itt grad
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 10:40am

dunno why, but it posted twice. Please disregard.



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 10:57am

I went to a 4-year university for Chemistry and I've never held a Chemistry job. But I don't blame the university for that. Granted, they didn't inform me that most companies don't want Chemists with Bachelors degrees; they want Chemists with Masters degrees. Perhaps the faculty didn't know. Perhaps that was the job climate back then. That being said, when I didn't get any job offers, I switched gears - I did what I had to do to have myself an enjoyable career.

Do I regret going to that university for a Chemistry degree? Not at all - it certainly wasn't wasted time. My degree is still respected by IT managers and CIOs who have hired me in the past.

The university has a center that helps graduates find employment. Moreover, the faculty in the Chemistry department passed along any leads that came their way. However, it wasn't their responsibility to find me a job... it was my responsibility.

Keep in mind that I'm not pointing fingers, and I'm not speaking to anyone in particular... I'm merely giving everyone on the forum the benefit of my experience and perspective so you can make an informed career choice - whether you're considering a university or trade school, or whether you've already made a decision and are regretting the choice you made. In either case, do some research, decide what you want to do to improve your situation, and do it. Only you can change your situation. And you can.

-------------
MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 11:36am

^ScreweD wrote:
Justice,

But I did it because I wanted to get to the Baschelors CVT program.

The first day I spoke to an ITT rep it was because I wanted to learn 3D Computer animation. I was told that they offered it as a bachelors program. ITT requires that students take AutoCAD beforehand. They claim it is a great foundation as a basis for preparing their students for 3D Studio Max and therefore required. Turns out that they were full of sh*t. There are not many similarities between AutoCAD and 3D Studio Max. Once you got into the Bachelors program you quickly realized it.


I think ITT TECH told you to do your pre requirements first, itís because they want their customers to come back and give more money to them for another two years.

Yes, I use the word ďcustomerĒ because they treat you like a customer, not like a student.




Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 11:49am

TranscenderMike, did they teach there and did you learn anything realted to your degree as a result of that teaching? Correct neither of us are employed in the same field we went to college for. There's a big difference between your situation and mine. Your qualified and I'm not even though I should be. My degree may look to have value but relly behind it all it doesn't.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not upset about working in the field of web applications development. I enjoy it. Point is web development was a hobby that I had to fall back on because of ITT Technical Institute. I would have rather had the proper education, of which I paid for, to work in the field of 3D Design and Computer Animation. I'm stuck with having to pay a great deal of money for an education not recieved.

The bottom line is that my class was scammed by ITT corporate thieves. You'd be upset too if 40 grand of your money was pissed away on something you never recieved. I spent the last two years struggleing with faculity to actually get their stuff in order and teach us something for the money. The last two years was what our entire class had spent the previous two year to get to. ITT ended up just wasting 4 years of our lives and fourty grand period.   


Secondly, Not blame the university? I may be taking this wrong but I'll explain. Everything was wrong at my college. Instructors didn't teach or we didn't even have access the tools to learn. I wouldn't cal it blaming. In my opinion blaming means the same thing as lying and pointing the finger. One thing I do not do is lye. It was horriable at ITT Technical Insititute. My class seriously gained no knowledge out of the Bachelors program.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:12pm

^ScreweD,


so you had to pay 40K for 4 years or for the Bachelors Degree?

I thought it suppose to be more than that.



Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:17pm

Justice
All schools make you take pre reguirments first. I had to take a lot of bs classes before the fun stuff. I am sure TMoke had to take a few odd classes before being let loose in the lab.

As I said before I worked with ITT grads and it is funny the only people who complain about them are those with out jobs, or jobs in their field. But that is not just ITT tech there are people I gradurated with at Kaplan who scream that they too didn't learn anything and were scamed, funny thing is they to do not have jobs.

Bottom line all you who claim to have been scamed had the government investigate your claims and they found nothing wrong.

-------------
mike



Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:20pm

Justice,

I attended ITT from 1998 through 2002. The price of tuition has gone up since then. Still a hefty amount to pay either way.



Posted by: rrosenkoetter
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:21pm

He's got a point Mike... My degree is in Nuclear Engineering and I haven't been anywhere near a power plant since 1993.

But my professors DID actually teach me nuclear engineering. What is legal ramifications of a contract that offers an education for money, but then doesn't give the education?

It's one thing to hear ITT students complain they can't find an IT job... It's another to hear that the professor asked them to guess his age for the final exam.

Those students paid thousands of dollars of their own money for an education which they did not receive. Seems a lawsuit would have some merit.

-------------
Ron Rosenkoetter
MCSE (NT 4.0, 2000, 2003)



Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:27pm

rrosenkoetter

I believe that age story as much as you believe in the toothfairy.
Second Screwed proves what Wildcate, MikeT and myself have said all along. Nothing he has said is something that he wouldn't have found out if he did some research. I know ITT will let you sit in on a class, he could have sat outside a class on some odd eveing and talked to students when they came out. It just suprising that someone would pay 40,000 for something and not look into it.
There has been plenty of lawsuits, there is even a lady that post on here wanting people to get invovled in her cases. The United States Government raided a crap load of ITT campuses and main office and still found nothing. Now I do believe their may be an enrollment officer and a few teachers that are bad apples, there are at any school. But these people signed a contract and it is their own fualt if they did not put the research into it before hand.

-------------
mike



Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:32pm

miket20706,

Your bottom line statement is wrong..

I spoke with investigators from the US Department of Investigation about three months prior to when the FED raid took place.

They came from Dallas Tx to Indiana and met with me for about two hours. I referred a couple of my class mates whom also met with them. It would of been my entire class but I don't have any contact information on them.

I won't say what we spoke about but I'm glad to of contributed my experiences. True, they dropped the flags on the nationwide investigation but they are now investigating select ITT campus locations. That has to be out of some sort of result of wrong findings that they can't prosecute nationwide. I image my campus location is one of them under investigation still. I'd testify any day in court. I just hope that day comes no matter how long I have to wait.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:32pm

rrosenkoetter wrote:

It's another to hear that the professor asked them to guess his age for the final exam.




I guess that's why ITT Tech customers (students) have HIGH GPA'S.

How old was he anyway?????



Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:37pm

error



Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:40pm

miket20706 wrote:
Second Screwed proves what Wildcate, MikeT and myself have said all along. Nothing he has said is something that he wouldn't have found out if he did some research.




So you believe that it's ok to screw students out money as longs as they could have found out about it beforehand? Wheres your ethics? I'd hope no one ever deals business with you if that is your true mindset.



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:40pm

^ScreweD wrote:
TranscenderMike, did they teach there and did you learn anything realted to your degree as a result of that teaching? Correct neither of us are employed in the same field we went to college for. There's a big difference between your situation and mine. Your qualified and I'm not even though I should be. My degree may look to have value but relly behind it all it doesn't.

...

Secondly, Not blame the university? I may be taking this wrong but I'll explain. Everything was wrong at my college. Instructors didn't teach or we didn't even have access the tools to learn. I wouldn't cal it blaming. In my opinion blaming means the same thing as lying and pointing the finger. One thing I do not do is lye. It was horriable at ITT Technical Insititute. My class seriously gained no knowledge out of the Bachelors program.


Yes, I did learn stuff related to my degree... but I did research ahead of time to ensure that the school actually *had* Chemistry lab equipment, knowledgeable faculty and a good reputation before I put down any money to go there.

I don't think blaming is equivalent to lying. I can blame someone for something not being done and it be entirely true. The reason I say I don't blame the university is because it wasn't their responsibility to tell me of the employment conditions in the field that I studied. I'm not saying that you should or should not blame ITT Tech or be upset at ITT Tech or anything - I am merely providing advice to others that are either making an education decision... or trying to recover from a bad education decision.

-------------
MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:49pm

^ScreweD,

I think it is very clear now that Feds has dropped every cases against ITT TECH.

Can you give me guide or website, where I can still find something like ITT TECH vs Feds?



Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:52pm

I've got proof I just wish I could show it.

. http://ITT-Tech.StealingIstheirBusiness.com - http://ITT-Tech.StealingIstheirBusiness.com

I don't know if any of you ever saw that when it was open but that was entirely me. ITT Corporate knows me and they probably read this forum too. Corporate was interviewing my instructors after they found that site. They saw the proof there. I took it down to be sure I wasn't breaking any laws. Site involved streaming some conversational audio recordings with faculity admitting how we weren't provided for or taught.

I had same instructor (as age exam) on tape telling class mate to suck his dick because student gave him sh*t for showing up late again. I had Assistant Dean on tape more less verifying everything I say



Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:57pm

Screwed my point is you did not get screwed. ITT told you what you wanted to hear and you turned that into what you want to hear. For example they propably said something like "Animation professionals make 100,000 a year and we will give you the skills to do that and even provide job placement assistance" and you heard "cool I will be able to make a good bit of money and work as in animation". It is not that recuriters fualt you didn't take a few extra minutes to check his claim.
Like my earlier examples do you think Military recruiters tell new recruites everything about military life? Do you thing used car salesmen do? How about real estate sales people?
I have one other real world example. I had a friend spend 2,000 on a two day real estate seminar. He went and learned nothing and was like "How dear they rib me off by charging me 2000 for this" and "They know most people can not afford this". My response is simple "It is not their responsability to know what you can and can not afford, you balance your checkbook not them"



-------------
mike



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:58pm

^ScreweD wrote:
So you believe that it's ok to screw students out money as longs as they could have found out about it beforehand? Wheres your ethics? I'd hope no one ever deals business with you if that is your true mindset.


No one is saying that what ITT has done to you (if it happened, and I have no reason to believe it didn't happen) is OK or justified. None of us are condoning ITT's actions. What we are saying is that, with adequate research, the situation could have been avoided.

I'll throw a few scenarios out there for ya:

A few years ago, I bought a processor from a guy on eBay. His feedback was OK, but he didn't have a lot of history. Something didn't feel right. But it was a bargain, so I bought it. The seller never shipped the processor, although he said he did. Turns out that he stiffed *100* people for approximately $25,000 in merchandise. Had I done my research adequately, and/or trusted my hunches, I would have found out that a user with a very minor amount of feedback had over 100 technology auctions going on at the same time and that some of his existing feedback were from made-up accounts. This would never had happened and I would not have had to wait a year to get a refund from eBay if I had done my research well enough. Does that justify the seller's actions? Heck no. He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. He is to blame. However, I made a bad decision.

A person decides to go into the wrong part of town, not knowing it's an area known for high crime. He or she gets mugged, killed, raped, whatever. That person would not have been mugged had he or she known that the area was bad and would have avoided the area. Does it justify the mugger's/killer's/rapist's actions? Heck no! Not at all. The criminal should be tried and punished for his or her actions. The criminal is to blame. However, the person made a bad decision.

Even in my college situation, I could have shaped my career better had I done adequate research about the level of education that chemical companies require of their employees.

Hey, listen, man, I feel for ya, I really do. But everyone makes bad decisions. You did, I did, everyone does. However, take a step back and look at your posts - you're getting awfully defensive about what we're saying, when what you should be doing is looking at our posts as constructive criticism... something to help you grow as a person. Doesn't help *me* one bit to write paragraphs about this stuff. But hopefully, it helps you and others that read it.

-------------
MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 12:59pm


Read last sentence.

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/NYS/ESI/DOJLet.pdf - http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/NYS/ESI/DOJLet.pdf



Posted by: rrosenkoetter
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 1:00pm

miket20706 wrote:

It just suprising that someone would pay 40,000 for something and not look into it.


Oh, I don't know about that... Sounds like the first two years was real education. That would lead one to expect the next two years to offer a real education as well. And it's not that hard to imagine the administrator promising to "look into it" over and over without doing anything and that dragging out for months and months.

miket20706 wrote:

But these people signed a contract and it is their own fualt if they did not put the research into it before hand.


Ummm... If the school does not provide an education for the money they receive then THEY are in breach of contract.

The tricky part is quantifying what constitutes an education.

Bottom line... avoid these schools. Take cheap community college classes to learn basic IT skills and get a few certifications. Then find an entry-level job (whatever you can get), and learn as much as you can on the job... Later, you can investigate different ways to get a degree while working (and hopefully your employer will help you pay for it).

-------------
Ron Rosenkoetter
MCSE (NT 4.0, 2000, 2003)



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 1:02pm

^ScreweD,

I went to the site you gave us, thank you.
Problem, what should be my username and password.

As far as I know, ITT TECH is free from the Feds. That's what the internet is showing.

May be you have some other weapons or sites we can go to.

What ITT Corporate reads this forum too, I'm sorry if I broke anybodys heart.
I was just using FREEDOM OF SPEECH LAW.



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 1:03pm

rrosenkoetter wrote:
He's got a point Mike... My degree is in Nuclear Engineering and I haven't been anywhere near a power plant since 1993.

But my professors DID actually teach me nuclear engineering. What is legal ramifications of a contract that offers an education for money, but then doesn't give the education?

It's one thing to hear ITT students complain they can't find an IT job... It's another to hear that the professor asked them to guess his age for the final exam.

Those students paid thousands of dollars of their own money for an education which they did not receive. Seems a lawsuit would have some merit.


I agree that a lawsuit should be brought if there is enough evidence to support their claim. However, if I had been taking that program, I would have checked to see if they could indeed offer me that educational experience before I gave them any money. I'm not justifying ITT's actions... by all means, they should go get 'em if they did wrong. :)

-------------
MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 1:03pm

miket20706 wrote:
Screwed my point is you did not get screwed. ITT told you what you wanted to hear and you turned that into what you want to hear. For example they propably said something like "Animation professionals make 100,000 a year and we will give you the skills to do that and even provide job placement assistance" and you heard "cool I will be able to make a good bit of money and work as in animation". It is not that recuriters fualt you didn't take a few extra minutes to check his claim.
Like my earlier examples do you think Military recruiters tell new recruites everything about military life? Do you thing used car salesmen do? How about real estate sales people?
I have one other real world example. I had a friend spend 2,000 on a two day real estate seminar. He went and learned nothing and was like "How dear they rib me off by charging me 2000 for this" and "They know most people can not afford this". My response is simple "It is not their responsability to know what you can and can not afford, you balance your checkbook not them"



I did get screwed no matter how you look at it. I'm not complaining about big salaries or rep lying. The rep may have said that kind of stuff but I don't give two sh*ts about what rep said. I'm talking about the basics.



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 1:09pm

rrosenkoetter wrote:
miket20706 wrote:

But these people signed a contract and it is their own fualt if they did not put the research into it before hand.


Ummm... If the school does not provide an education for the money they receive then THEY are in breach of contract.

The tricky part is quantifying what constitutes an education.

Bottom line... avoid these schools. Take cheap community college classes to learn basic IT skills and get a few certifications. Then find an entry-level job (whatever you can get), and learn as much as you can on the job... Later, you can investigate different ways to get a degree while working (and hopefully your employer will help you pay for it).


Quoted for Truth.

Mike, you say it's the student's "fault". I think this is where we differ, at least in wording. The student can never be "at fault" (unless, of course, the student defaults on payments). The student might have made a bad decision that could have been fixed by research... but it all depends on what was *actually* promised, in writing, by ITT that determines whether ITT is "at fault", in breach of their contract.

That's the key, though: what is promised in the contract. If ITT is culpable, then they are "at fault". If ITT didn't promise specific things, then nobody is at fault, and the student simply made a bad education decision.

Never trust anyone... Colleges, car dealerships, magazine subscription offers, *anyone*.... without first verifying their claims and getting EVERYTHING in writing.

-------------
MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 1:27pm

I only hoped into this conversation because of the direction that the forum was taking. I think TranscenderMike has nailed it in the above statement. I must now decline from participating in this form. I usually don't speak much anymore. All I have to say is that if I can one day afford and attorney then ITT Technical Institute hasn't heard the last from me. My silence is for sale and only ITT can buy it. I want my money back.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 1:39pm

^ScreweD,

Good luck, you are strong guy

Thanks for the websites



Posted by: rrosenkoetter
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 1:46pm

Quote:
A person decides to go into the wrong part of town, not knowing it's an area known for high crime. He or she gets mugged, killed, raped, whatever. That person would not have been mugged had he or she known that the area was bad and would have avoided the area. Does it justify the mugger's/killer's/rapist's actions? Heck no! Not at all. The criminal should be tried and punished for his or her actions. The criminal is to blame. However, the person made a bad decision.


But half the people on this board are just saying... Quit crying about being raped, you should have done your research and not gone into that part of town....

That's a pretty callous response (And yes I used the rape example instead of mugging to get a better emotional response from the reader)

A better response would be.. "Man, I'm really sorry about what happened to you. Hopefully others will read this and learn not to go into that part of town... er... will learn to research technical schools before plunking down thousands and thousands of dollars."

I would like to see some sting operations and real consequences for the owners of these schools until complaints by students are taken seriously.




-------------
Ron Rosenkoetter
MCSE (NT 4.0, 2000, 2003)



Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 1:50pm

TMike
In your post about getting screwed over for the Chip and the other stories about getting mugged due to being on the wrong side of town are truw examples of being a victom. Someone targeted people for thier own gain and then committed a crime.

Now ITT case is different. Lets say I go to a car dealership and buy a used car, lets say a 2004 mustang convertable, for 23,000. The salemen tells me it is a great deal and I will not be sorry so I buy it. A week later a see an add in the paper for a 2006 convertable mustang new never drove before with all the features of mine for only 22000. Now did I get screwed, in some ways yes but when that kind of money is on the line I should have shopped around.
Now if there is proof that ITT stuck a gun to someones head (like what happens when your mugged or rapped) then thats a different story.

-------------
mike



Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 2:07pm

ahh.. to hell with it. I give up on miket20706.

miket20706 your making it so hard for me to not say anything.



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 2:28pm

miket20706 wrote:
TMike
In your post about getting screwed over for the Chip and the other stories about getting mugged due to being on the wrong side of town are truw examples of being a victom. Someone targeted people for thier own gain and then committed a crime.

Now ITT case is different. Lets say I go to a car dealership and buy a used car, lets say a 2004 mustang convertable, for 23,000. The salemen tells me it is a great deal and I will not be sorry so I buy it. A week later a see an add in the paper for a 2006 convertable mustang new never drove before with all the features of mine for only 22000. Now did I get screwed, in some ways yes but when that kind of money is on the line I should have shopped around.
Now if there is proof that ITT stuck a gun to someones head (like what happens when your mugged or rapped) then thats a different story.


If, in fact, ITT took peoples money and failed to meet contractual obligations, then they are liable. However, there must be evidence that ITT failed to meet contractual obligations. In your example, you are correct in that a salesman is not responsible for getting more money than a competitor company. However, if that same used car salesman sold a car that, for example, was wrecked, but did not disclose it to the owner as the law requires, THEN the car company is responsible because they failed to meet contractual and legal obligations.

If ITT did what they were contractually obligated to do, then they will not be found to be "at fault".

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MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 3:12pm

TranscenderMike, or anybody

so anybody can charge any amount of money for their services, education, or degree?

Does the US Govt. has rights to tell the price of each services,degree or assets?



Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 3:25pm

MikeT

I agree 150% with you that if a used car dealer did not tell the person about a problem with the car.
If I am not mistaken you served in teh military and I bet like many people your recruiter didn't tell you everything about military life does that mean the military screwed you? YOu sound like you took advantage of some of the stuff the military had to offer and made the best of it, but there are people who don't and just complain about the military. Both had the same recruiters so does that mean one person got screwed but the other didn't?
Now back to the ITT case, why is it only those who are not doing what ever there dregree says are the ones complaining? I have yet to see someone who went to ITT who work in networking or programming complain about thier training. So ITT only screwed the people that are un secusseful?
   I got me second degree from Kaplan and I know people who I gradurated with who can not find jobs. THe first thing out of thier mouth is Kaplan didn't train me, their staff lied to me or what ever. Does that mean Kaplan screwed them?
Any school, ITT, MIT, Harverd, Penn state or what ever can only point you in the right direction when it comes to knowledge it is up to the student to take advantage of it. I am sure when you earned your chemistry degree your perfessor didn't hold your hand through ever lab, they shown you the basics and some advanced topics and you studied and practiced on your own outside the classroom.
Another thing with this ITT complaints is it me or does it get stories get worse when the complainer does not get anyone to feel sorry for them. First it was ITT passed anyone and no one had to go to class; when people said you should have complained then it became an issue of OOOH ITT got me in so much debt Then when you tell them they are responsable for what they can afford it becomes an issue of Well the computers didn't work or we didn't have software or are final test was guess the professor age.

Now come on ITT been investigated by the government and case was closed with no wrong doing. YOu expect me to believe that ITT is half as bad ass these people complain and the government let them slide? I hate the thought that we will let students start calling schools scams just becouse they do not have as much success as other students.



-------------
mike



Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 3:31pm

Justice

We are an open market you can charge what ever you want for what ever you want, in most cases.
for example if someone was willing to pay me 500 for phonebooks, which had the same info as the ones you get for free, then I can do it.

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mike



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 5:42pm

Well, I'm not happy to hear people went through rough times at ITT TECh.

I have been to Tech school too, not ITT TECH, and i have seen, most people are there to go forward. The lazy people are out of school very quickly.

I hear so many things about ITT TECH than anyother school. Do you guys know any other school who is same rank as ITT TECH on the suck sites?

They say, when some thing really bad happens to you, you think it is bad, but it has happened for your own GOOD.



Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 6:10pm

Justic

THere is a sucks site for any thing. The is a Capella sucks which is a school I was thinking about going to.
On the other hand I used to be a Manager at Best buy, I left becouse I did not like how the company treats customers and thats when someone shown me a BestBuy sucks site. Then again their is a CompUSA sucks and a Target Sucks site and I never had a problem with either of these two businesses.
Now ITT might get more complaints but then again their are a lot of out of work IT professionals. So just becouse someone has nothing better to do than to post a blahblah.sucks does not mean anything.

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mike



Posted by: rrosenkoetter
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 8:01pm

CompUSA sucks much worse than Best Buy

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=compusa_suck s - http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=compusa_suck s

WARNING: Not a site for those who dislike bad language.

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Ron Rosenkoetter
MCSE (NT 4.0, 2000, 2003)



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 8:37pm

Justice wrote:
TranscenderMike, or anybody

so anybody can charge any amount of money for their services, education, or degree?

Does the US Govt. has rights to tell the price of each services,degree or assets?


Yes to your first question; no to your second (unless the government is the entity providing the education). That's what capitalism is all about, Justice.

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MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 8:41pm

miket20706 wrote:
MikeT

I agree 150% with you that if a used car dealer did not tell the person about a problem with the car.
If I am not mistaken you served in teh military and I bet like many people your recruiter didn't tell you everything about military life does that mean the military screwed you? YOu sound like you took advantage of some of the stuff the military had to offer and made the best of it, but there are people who don't and just complain about the military. Both had the same recruiters so does that mean one person got screwed but the other didn't?
Now back to the ITT case, why is it only those who are not doing what ever there dregree says are the ones complaining? I have yet to see someone who went to ITT who work in networking or programming complain about thier training. So ITT only screwed the people that are un secusseful?
   I got me second degree from Kaplan and I know people who I gradurated with who can not find jobs. THe first thing out of thier mouth is Kaplan didn't train me, their staff lied to me or what ever. Does that mean Kaplan screwed them?
Any school, ITT, MIT, Harverd, Penn state or what ever can only point you in the right direction when it comes to knowledge it is up to the student to take advantage of it. I am sure when you earned your chemistry degree your perfessor didn't hold your hand through ever lab, they shown you the basics and some advanced topics and you studied and practiced on your own outside the classroom.
Another thing with this ITT complaints is it me or does it get stories get worse when the complainer does not get anyone to feel sorry for them. First it was ITT passed anyone and no one had to go to class; when people said you should have complained then it became an issue of OOOH ITT got me in so much debt Then when you tell them they are responsable for what they can afford it becomes an issue of Well the computers didn't work or we didn't have software or are final test was guess the professor age.

Now come on ITT been investigated by the government and case was closed with no wrong doing. YOu expect me to believe that ITT is half as bad ass these people complain and the government let them slide? I hate the thought that we will let students start calling schools scams just becouse they do not have as much success as other students.



You are correct; there is no way the recruiter could have told me about *everything* I would encounter in the military. Doesn't mean the recruiter "screwed me".

I cannot disagree with what you are saying. However, I am not assessing the validity of those students' claims. I merely state that one should research a situation before stepping into it.

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MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: D-Day
Date Posted: 10 August 2005 at 10:45pm

^ScreweD wrote:
Look D-Day, Don't give me that bull about blaming ITT because of going through a hard-time. To tell you the
truth I am working......blah blah blah crap crap crap



Don't give you bull? Did I specifically point you out? Or are you as insecure about yourself to take things personally? You're right, I will say some "Lame ass stuff". Specifically about you. Don't give me that lame ass bullsh*t that 3d Studio max is "complicated and difficult". sh*t, did you do your research before you attended the school? My LITTLE brother started messing with Flash at 12 years old. At 13, he messed with 3D Studio Max. An ILLEGAL version of Max, mind you. If a 13 year old can get his hands on a full version of 3D Studio Max, why can't a 3rd-year college student? So basically, you're saying you just practically gave up after the teacher couldn't give you a working version of Max, and you flushed $60k down the hole? He mastered it in less then a year, with NO teacher, studying on his own time from online sites with tutorials. Hell, he only stopped using Max because his computers broke. And yet it's too "complicated" for some 3rd-year college student, whom, I will assume, is over the age of 20? At 14 he started researching colleges. At your age, god knows how old you were, didn't even do research to find a credible school? He's now 16, with one year left in high school, deciding between two colleges. On his spare time, he makes animated cartoons through flash with my cousin, who happens to be 12.

You are EXACTLY the type of person I explained earlier. The type that doesn't do their research, goes through crap, and bitches and moans about it. Do yourself a favor and stfu. You make yourself seem more like an idiot with every post. Basically, you say "I did NO research into ITT and attended their program for 4 years! Now it's their fault I didn't learn anything!". SH*T yeah it's their fault. It's your fault though for not even researching it. So "Mr. Roboto", it's you who shouldn't give me bull.

P.S. - My little brother says "You got pownzrd". Basically, I think he's referring to how he dominated your intellectual level since the age of 12.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 11 August 2005 at 10:58am

What should people try to find during a research on schools?

I know about accreditations, cost, and reputation.

What else is left out?



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 11 August 2005 at 11:05am

There's so much to research that it is impossible to list everything. Find out what classes are offered and what is taught in each class. Find out if credits transfer, and if so, to which schools. Ask opinions of current and former students from that particular location. For instance, if you are going to ITT Tech in Dallas, get opinions from individuals who went to ITT Tech in Dallas, not just anyone who went to any ITT Tech school. Find out if their instructors were knowledgeable and helpful. Find out if the students feel like the school prepared them well for their career field. Find out if the equipment they used was adequate and available at all times. Find out how much employment assistance was provided, if any. Find out how they grade - for instance, it doesn't do you much good if they'll pass anyone, or if everyone walks out with a 95% average.

Keep in mind that this is just a partial list... research ANYTHING that you have a question about.

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MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: itt grad
Date Posted: 11 August 2005 at 11:58am

Justice wrote:
What should people try to find during a research on schools?

I know about accreditations, cost, and reputation.

What else is left out?


www.google.com



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 11 August 2005 at 12:27pm

TranscenderMike,

My friend who went to ITT TECH told me to go and talk to ITT TECH people. He was saying there was nothing wrong with it. I went and talk to them, and ITT TECH was so happy at my friend that they wanted to give him a free TShirt.

But, I didn't go there, my other friend did research on them, the results of accreditation was not that good and it cost too much.

Now my friend who has a ITT TECH degree doesn't work in his feild for more than two years. I don't think he will tell anyone to go there, and he wants to finish his bachelors at somewhere else.

Now my point is, if I had listened to my friend, like you said talk to a ITT TECH student, then would you have said that I didn't do the reasearch well.
According to my friend back then, ITT TECH was no PROBLEM.



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 11 August 2005 at 12:30pm

itt grad wrote:
www.google.com


OK MR ITT GRAD,

what does google.com suppose to mean??????



Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 11 August 2005 at 12:36pm

Justice

If it is that bad and your friend told you it was good then he is not your friend.



-------------
mike



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 11 August 2005 at 12:42pm

miket20706,

oK, he is my co-worker and we became friends.
The reason he went to itt tech was because he knew some other young kid who went to itt tech and was making about $14 dollars an hour with an ITT DEgree.

So he also went to ITT TECH, but in his mind ITT TECH was a good school, and so he told me to go and talk to them.



Posted by: itt grad
Date Posted: 11 August 2005 at 3:08pm

http://uopsucks.com/ - http://uopsucks.com/

http://www.menet.umn.edu/~hokan/U_of_M_College_of_Conti nuing_Education_Sucks.html - http://www.menet.umn.edu/~hokan/U_of_M_College_of_Continuing _Education_Sucks.html

http://www.ihatedevry.com/ - http://www.ihatedevry.com/

Many students from many schools thinks their school sucks and gave them bad education... NOT JUST ITT. If you went to any other school you may have the same opinion about that school. Welcome to college. Suck it up and move on.



Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 11 August 2005 at 3:10pm

Justice wrote:
TranscenderMike,

My friend who went to ITT TECH told me to go and talk to ITT TECH people. He was saying there was nothing wrong with it. I went and talk to them, and ITT TECH was so happy at my friend that they wanted to give him a free TShirt.

But, I didn't go there, my other friend did research on them, the results of accreditation was not that good and it cost too much.

Now my friend who has a ITT TECH degree doesn't work in his feild for more than two years. I don't think he will tell anyone to go there, and he wants to finish his bachelors at somewhere else.

Now my point is, if I had listened to my friend, like you said talk to a ITT TECH student, then would you have said that I didn't do the reasearch well.
According to my friend back then, ITT TECH was no PROBLEM.


Yes, I said talk to ITT Tech studentS, plural. However, I never said you should ONLY talk to students... you should research using a variety of methods... online searches, personal visits to the facility, instructor interviews... whatever you desire.

-------------
MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: Justice
Date Posted: 11 August 2005 at 10:57pm

TranscenderMike, and people who wants to go to College:

Research is so confusing, that sometimes people really donít know what to do. Instructors will never say anything bad about the company they work for.

For example I know one person who is a contractor (not hired) at Intel, and she went to ITT TECH.
Another person I met at university, he worked for Intel, and he went to ITT TECH, however he said none of his credit transferred and he had to do it all over again for bachelors at state university.

There are people I know went to ITT TECH and not working in their field.

So if anybody is considering going to ITT TECH and you are reading this site, then I guess the conclusion is we donít know the real answer if ITT TECH is bad or good.

I guess everything depends on job market and economy of USA, not on colleges.
DO RESEARCH ON JOB MARKET FIRST.




Posted by: ^ScreweD
Date Posted: 12 August 2005 at 6:47am

I know the conclusion and real answer if ITT Tech is bad or good through my experience of attending the Indianapolis Indiana campus. The ITT Tech campus that I attended is a bad choice in my opinion. Please, research and http://itt-tech.stealingistheirbusiness.com/campuslocator.cf m?pgid=campuslocator - locate an alternative school to attend.




Posted by: TranscenderMike
Date Posted: 12 August 2005 at 9:44am

Justice wrote:
TranscenderMike, and people who wants to go to College:

Research is so confusing, that sometimes people really donít know what to do. Instructors will never say anything bad about the company they work for.

For example I know one person who is a contractor (not hired) at Intel, and she went to ITT TECH.
Another person I met at university, he worked for Intel, and he went to ITT TECH, however he said none of his credit transferred and he had to do it all over again for bachelors at state university.

There are people I know went to ITT TECH and not working in their field.

So if anybody is considering going to ITT TECH and you are reading this site, then I guess the conclusion is we donít know the real answer if ITT TECH is bad or good.

I guess everything depends on job market and economy of USA, not on colleges.
DO RESEARCH ON JOB MARKET FIRST.



I think what we have here is a failure to communicate. I never said to ask the instructors about how the school is. I said that one should find out if the instructors are knowledgeable and helpful - you can usually determine that from speaking with students who have taken a course from particular instructors.

Yes, research can be confusing. But what is the alternative? Smart and logical people can come to a logical conclusion based on their individual research.

Yes, I *know* you know people who went to ITT Tech and do not work in the industry - you've mentioned the same thing several times. The fact that they went to ITT Tech may or may not be the reason why they aren't working in the industry. I'm not saying that the ITT Tech in your area is good or bad - I'm just saying that one conclusion cannot immediately be drawn from the other. One might be able to make the logical connection that ITT Tech (in your area) might be bad if, for example, students from OTHER schools have no problem getting jobs, but students from your ITT Tech find it difficult to gain employment. If that is true, then yes, one might not want to attend the ITT Tech in your area. However, if graduates of other schools are having trouble as well, one cannot assume it's automatically ITT Tech's fault.

You stated that everything is based on job market and economy, not on schools. How do you logically come to that conclusion from what has been stated? The job market is important... and where you get your education is also important. One cannot discount one or the other. For example:
1) One school might be better equipped than another school (more/better technology, software, instructors).
2) The instructors in one school might be more knowledgeable than those in another school.
3) One school might be more respected than another school (yes, it might not be "fair" or "right", but it happens).
4) The job market in one area of the country (or in a different country) might be much better than that in another area or country.
5) The salaries in one area of the country might be much better than those offered in another area... but the cost of living might also be higher.

All of these factors will influence a person's employment outlook.

I'm not trying to debate with anyone whether ITT Tech is good or bad. I have no real opinion on the issue other than I would probably rather go to a university than a tech school. What I *am* trying to say is that:
1) You are misunderstanding, misinterpreting, or mistranslating what I have previously stated
2) You are repeating what you have previously stated, and
3) Some of your conclusions are based on incomplete logic.

I hope that you understand what I am trying to say.

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MCSE+I, MCSA: Security, MCDST, MCDBA, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, CCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 12 August 2005 at 10:18am

We could only hope that Justice would understand but so far I don't see that happening.

reminds me of an old lady who constantly complains regardless if there isn't anything to complain about. She isn't happy unless she's complaining aka a hypochondriac

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: itt grad
Date Posted: 12 August 2005 at 7:24pm

Reminds me of a kid asking his dad, "Why? Why?"
He never attended ITT, ITT has done nothing to him yet he wants to see them burn to the ground. I understand your friend had bad experience with ITT but that's his battle not yours.
This thread should have ended 10 pages ago but yet you keep stirring up controversy and asking irrelevant questions.



Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 12 August 2005 at 9:22pm

itt grad

Stopped 10 pages ago, I want to see if we can hit 50 pages. Just playing

At least Justice isn't like that one person who keeps posting their address and wanting people to send her information so that they can create a law suit against ITT. Got to give her credit posting you contact info like that on a public message board is either brave or dum as hell


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mike



Posted by: itt please
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 10:25am

I WENT TO ITT I HAVE A FEW WORDS TO ADD THEY DONT CARE IF LEARN S**! AS LONG AS THERE STOCK AND MEMBERS ARE MAKING MONEY THEY WILL PASS YOU PUSH YOU THROUGH AND IN MY EXPERIENCE ONCE THEY GOT ALL THERE GOVERNMENT MONEY THEN THEY WILL KICK A STUDENT OUT . I WAS BOOTED 2 WEEKS BEFORE GUADUATION DUE TO THERE ATTENDANCE PROBATION AND THE ONLY REASON I WAS ON A.P WAS I DROPPED TO RETAKE A QTR THAT I DID NOT WANT TO BE PUSH THROUGH. THE PROBLEM I FOUND IS THERE ARE SOME THERE TO LEARN AND OTHERS THAT MOM AND DAD TOLD THEM MOVE OR GO TO SCHOOL SO THE TEACHERS ARE TRYING TO TEACH WHILE BABYSITTING JR.



Posted by: itt please
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 10:35am

if you want hard facts on itt policy follow the link
http://securities.stanford.edu/1030/ESI04-01/2004819_r01c_04 cv0380.pdf



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 11:03am

you signed the dotted lines agreeing to the rules and regulations that the school had. You've got nobody to blame but yourself the way I see it.

Also, was it necessary to type in all caps? After all this is a professional forum, please try to act like one, the rest of us would appreciate it. (yes, I'm blunt so sue me)

You broke your link so I fixed it http://securities.stanford.edu/1030/ESI04-01/2004819_r01c_04 cv0380.pdf - Class Action Filing by Austin Police Department Retirement System as Shareholders against ITT Tech filed August 19th, 2004 for a request for trial by jury. It would have been nice if there was a link to see the deposition of this case, but then again, the people filing suit were shareholders.


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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 11:53am

Wildcat

It will be nice to see how this investigation turns out.
ITT please
it says the school has been under investigation since 2002 for possible false documentation; these are claims not fact yet. I am sure if there was solid evidance of these claims ITT would not be getting student aid at the present moment. I am not saying that it is not true but just not fact yet


-------------
mike



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 12:06pm

Well it really doesn't take a genius to figure it out that I'd say the claims are probably true for the most part, the problem comes from proving it in a court of law (or ITT settling out of court).

The class action above says it appears that the shareholders have enough to go to trial with (I'm not too good with civil law - just criminal).

There is a local technical training facility near me (a VUE testing site) that provides pretty good training and has an excellent reputation, so not all for profit. TranscenderMike will like them as they recommended Transcenders when I was having a problem with one exam, but I didn't fork the money out yet I knew it was just a matter of "what we have here is a failure to communicate" between what I was seeing and what my brain was trying to tell me (looking forward to maybe spending some money when I get started on 2003 exams) especially with the simulation questions. It might be well worth it then.

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: TruthISeek
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 1:29pm

mrtruth wrote:
What I think is a big waste of money is spending 2+ years learning about how to score bowling or writing 25 page papers on the Russian Revolution (yeah that stuff will get you a job)or some other odd ball crap when all you want to do is learn about networking.

Is the reason why I decided to attend ITT.

[/QUOTE]I personally challenge anyone that is a grad of any ITT with good grades and excellent attendance and that doesnt walk around with the body odor of a dead rat or look like they just came off of a 3 day binge to post here with your email addy and I will contact you and get career services to work with you to assist you into the field.[/QUOTE]

You put your neck on the chopping block so here it is
My email is mythichal1@hotmail.com, I graduated from the St.Rose campus outside New Orleans. I was sent on two interviews one was cancelled due to the hurricane that blew in that day(seriously) and the other they wanted to pay me $160 dollars less a week than what I was already making not to mention I would have to either move or drive 2.5 hrs everyday to get to work. Yeah right.
After that I told the employment counselor to stay the hell away from me and forget my name all together. I still never found an IT job but I didn't lose any pay and it only continues to grow. So unless you can find me employment in the IT field that will start my base salary at 52000 a year based on what I learned from your beloved ITT Technical institute, I will continue my career as a pipe welder earning that 52000 a yr plus that I now enjoy.

-------------
A mistake is only a mistake if you never learn from it.



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 2:35pm

and there you hit the nail on the head. You got into IT to make money right off the bat. There's your mistake, again you didn't do your research or you looked at the inflated earning salaries of experienced professionals not realizing you'd have to put in several years of hard work to earn what you was already earning in the first place.

Good luck and don't burn yourself

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: miket20706
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 5:45pm

Wildcat

You took the words right out of my mouth with that. Sometimes I wounder way so many people who make a lot of money complain when ITT can not find them a job when they say they make 25 an hour or some even say over 100,00 a year.

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mike



Posted by: rrosenkoetter
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 6:34am

Are you insane??

Do you think someone with no experience at pipe-welding can come in off the street and start out at $52,000 a year??

Same thing with IT. No one will pay you that much in an entry-level position.

If you want to switch careers, then you have to start over at the bottom. That's how the world works, and anyone with any common sense would see the logic in it.

If you got an offer only making $120 a week less (About $6000 a year), you should have jumped at it... If indeed, you wanted to get into IT.

It wouldn't have taken long at all to get that money back and then some... that is... if you're a hard-worker and love to learn (learning never stops in IT).

If you're okay with welding pipes, stay with it... It's hard work, but the pay seems pretty good to me.

If you hate welding pipes, and dread going to work every-day, then perhaps you would enjoy IT more... Perhaps.. you might hate IT work... so it's tough to take a pay-cut on a chance that you'll enjoy the job more...

But if you really like computers and problem-solving, and your back is starting to hurt by the end of each day from welding pipes, maybe you should take the plunge.

Don't expect to be back up to $52,000 for 2-4 years (how fast you get back to that salary all depends on how hard YOU work... and your area's average salary, of course - $52,000 a year might be easier to get to in your area than my area)

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Ron Rosenkoetter
MCSE (NT 4.0, 2000, 2003)



Posted by: ldiaz117
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 7:28am

Geez..enough of this ITT crap.

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Leo Diaz
MCSA-2003 : MCP-WinXP : Citrix CCA : Network+ : A+
www.LeoDiaz.com



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 7:40am

ldiaz117 wrote:
Geez..enough of this ITT crap.


I second that opinion (and have been for a very long time)

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: Kimberly89015
Date Posted: 05 September 2005 at 5:30pm

It you are still attending ITT Tech, then listen to me...STOP!! I graduated WITH HONORS from ITT Tech 6/13/2003. I work at a bank. They lie so the can get you into school. Then you find out the the instuctors are not even able to teach the programs or the programs didn't work.



Posted by: Kimberly89015
Date Posted: 05 September 2005 at 5:33pm

no one said a job making 52,000 a year. How bout JUST A JOB. Not one time did they help anyone to find employment



Posted by: fkcomics
Date Posted: 09 September 2005 at 10:19am

hello my name is James Buchanan. I went to itt tech in Richardson TX. I dropped it when one of the teachers told me he was just there to keep up with technology and he wasn't there to teach. I brought it to the attention of the administration and they didn't care. I told them that I didn't learn anything and they said that was to bad. I was stuck with 12000 dollars of bills afterwards. after I left, I joined the navy so I could one day hope to get a real education. if you have any info on any case against itt I may be able to help with or may concern others in similar situations please e-mail me at jbuchan@vinson.navy.mil. thank you.



Posted by: ppcsucks
Date Posted: 12 September 2005 at 1:00pm

A lot of you people are crazy to discredit some of these other people's claims about ITT not being a 'bad' school. The people saying the load of crap like "You should of researched before hand" "You get what you put in" yada yada yada make it quite obvious they have never attended ITT Tech or a school similar.

The bottom line is these type of schools exist. I have personally attended a secondary tech school and had a similar experience. That is: Bad teachers, A's being awarded without deserving them, open book tests, and of course lower quality education for the 'lesser student'. You can say what you want, but the bottom line is that you don't think to ask the questions you are all saying that 'should of been asked' beforehand. And you know what, you shouldn't have to when someone from a learning institution is trying to help you plan your educational future. Especially when they are receiving government money to pay for it that has to be repayed by the student.

I feel real bad for the people who have gone through this, but the best thing to do is look at the obvious and go with your gut instinct when you 'know it isn't right, it's probably not'. I am ashamed of the 2 year Associates degree I earned from this particular institution, and I won't even list it on my resume, and I didn't even attend graduation because I know it's a farse. I graduated with a 3.8 accumulated GPA, but it's a joke. Bottom line is that a lot of these schools want your financial aid money and could care less about your education. Yes, almost all the teachers at this school didn't even know basic stuff. I had teachers just reading to me out of the book line by line .. if I wanted that I would of bought the book for myself.

Yes, I'm sure I'll hear the 'whiner' replies, but who cares right ... It didn't happen to you and until it does you'll just be critical of people who it has happened to. Although I will agree with some of you to actually research before hand, but that just doesn't come to mind when your going through admissions for most people.



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 12 September 2005 at 2:53pm

We not trying to discredit anyone, all we're saying is to use a little bit of common sense before forking over 20-40 grand. I don't have to attend ITT tech to know what I'm talking about, I've been in law enforcement 24years before starting my IT career and I've been hustled by the best of them throughout my law enforcement & IT career. I was out of work for 2 years during the dot com bust (regular work anyways) and I was desperate to improve my position. I've been to supposely job interviews only to find out it was a sheep in wolf's clothing trying to get me to sign up for the big loans (sounds like ITT) and enroll in their IT academy, promised me a job afterwards, the whole ball of wax.

For me it was easy, I just said, and how do you propose that I pay for this crap, with my good looks? I'm broke and out of work and you want me to attend your training academy at 7 grand and they'll even guarantee the loan for me, bullsh*t. Momma didn't raise no dummy mister, I came for a job interview, not a session on how to attend your "academy".

They all play on your emotion but the end results is the same, they get you to sign on the dotted line and for years you're embedded to them.

So knock our preaching of DO YOUR RESEARCH, forget pity, that won't solve your problem, but if we can warn one person who is researching like they should, then they have been warned and this applies to any institution that claims to provide training & education.

And who's whining? It sure ain't me except every woe is me person that comes along and complains ITT owes them something. You got your degree so what are you bitching about? That's what you paid for regardless if it won't trasfer to a majority of real educational institutions.

Why do you think most of us experienced IT people recommend self study 1st, State community college or University next that has a good IT training program if you can afford it is next on the list.

Look close to what we said, we never said ITT wasn't a bad school, but try and catch them writing up a fradulent contract to provide training that you signed and agreed to their terms. It would be rare if that ever happened. Doesn't matter what they said verbally, was it tape recorded? Any witnesses to their claims, not likely, nothing that'll stand up in court.

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: ITTGraduate
Date Posted: 26 October 2005 at 8:19am

Hello folks. I would like to share this with you. After graduating from ITT you start receiving emails with job postings that are in your field. I was insulted to see that at the top of the list was this:

<i>JOB FAIR!!!! Ryan Alternative Staffing is accepting applications on Saturday, Oct. 22nd @ 9am-11am 4489 Market St., Youngstown, OH Labor positions: assembly, packaging, inspecting, press operators, forklift, steel manufacturing. Pay ranges $6-$8 Clerical openings: Salem area-Computer Operator must have Associates Degree in Computer Science & 2-3 yrs. experience. Pay D.O.E. Bring 2 valids forms of ID to apply</i>

$6.00 bucks an hour. I guess ITT was worth the money.



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 26 October 2005 at 3:21pm

I would say ITT didn't have anything to do with that email. I get them all the time in my hotmail accounts, you visit websites and some will sell the info you provide immediately after you leave it. Since leaving hotmail and going to google mail my spam has dropped to less than 1% either that or you signed up for job fair. Just because you have an ITT degree doesn't necessary mean you won't have to start at the bottom if you don't have anything to offer other than an ITT degree

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: pentium4forever
Date Posted: 26 October 2005 at 10:46pm

I'm reading this thread and feel like I should contribute although it has nothing to do with this ITT grad school you all speak of. I was working in retail part-time taking computer courses at a cc (community college) very good school. I had been searching for entry level jobs back and forth. I came across one of the jobs on monster.com that I refer to as 'not jobs' type jobs. They aren't scams or at least not completely. I remember reading about one doing a search on help desk. I submitted my resume and got a call from them very excited. They are New Horizons and I told them about the Cisco I have and been doing, at the time had finished semesters 1&2, still had 3&4. Anyhow, I thought this was a real job I could start. The guy on the phone did a wonderful job trying to persuade me but I kept my mind clear. He said they train you, they have many different programs, one for MCSE, Cisco, CompTIA, Novell, they cover materials in a matter of weeks, maybe 2 weeks. My CC classes for each Cisco course is 7.5 weeks. I thought to myself, why should I even be interested, what BS is this? They want me to come and have them teach me stuff while I've already been doing that at my CC. They mentioned they would help me get a job afterward. I'm not sure if they were suckers or not. I almost gave in, I actually set up an appt to meet with the guy and spoke to my parents about it. They thought it was ridiculous. They known I'd been in college classes already. I mean, if I hadn't taken the CCNA 1 and 2 courses already, maybe it would have made more sense. However, I wanted to take the last 2 final CCNA courses, get a pretty advanced certificate for teh program, and then go for CCNA cert which I'm doing at this very moment.

My point I'm trying to raise is, don't you hate those type of jobs you see on monster.com and others that say, "looking for an IT fasttrack job? Complete 5 months of training in any of your choices, Microsoft, Cisco, Novell and start your career today!" I just think it's stupid that these are allowed on jobsites, they are just more schooling, we are looking for actual jobs. Anyhow, maybe New Horizons is a good place, I just had no need for it since I was half way done with CCNA courses. I ended up calling the guy back and got his machine, told him the drive was too far, it was, the New Horizon's office that they wanted me to come to, to discuss training (more CCNA learning which I was already well into at the time) was about 80 miles away. I told him thanks very nicely but that I changed my mind and not interested. He sent me an email saying that 95% of students they have find jobs. Long story short, I just recently got an entry-level position, a help desk position I'd been looking for almost 2 months ago.

Sorry for the long post, LOL.

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Nick



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 27 October 2005 at 6:31am

and talking about monster.com (and any others), don't bother responding to job ads that say Company Confidential - because they are 99.9% of the time not the hiring kind, they are resume centers themselves or training facilities (aka WOT - Waste Of Time)

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: BosonMichael
Date Posted: 27 October 2005 at 8:13am

Wildcat_Dude wrote:
and talking about monster.com (and any others), don't bother responding to job ads that say Company Confidential - because they are 99.9% of the time not the hiring kind, they are resume centers themselves or training facilities (aka WOT - Waste Of Time)


I disagree - that's how I got my current contract-to-hire job. However, this discussion should probably go in its own thread.

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BosonMichael
MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
Served proudly, US Army, 98C Analyst, '89-'92



Posted by: pentium4forever
Date Posted: 27 October 2005 at 11:18am

Wildcat_Dude wrote:
and talking about monster.com (and any others), don't bother responding to job ads that say Company Confidential - because they are 99.9% of the time not the hiring kind, they are resume centers themselves or training facilities (aka WOT - Waste Of Time)


You pretty much took the words out of my mouth and put it in one paragraph rather than my long novel length post.

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Nick



Posted by: pentium4forever
Date Posted: 27 October 2005 at 11:20am

TMichael wrote:
Wildcat_Dude wrote:
and talking about monster.com (and any others), don't bother responding to job ads that say Company Confidential - because they are 99.9% of the time not the hiring kind, they are resume centers themselves or training facilities (aka WOT - Waste Of Time)


I disagree - that's how I got my current contract-to-hire job. However, this discussion should probably go in its own thread.


I wouldn't think you'd need one of those type of jobs to get a job. I mean training program and then onto a job. You're well experienced and your certs you list should be enough to give you a chance at securing a position at maybe even Cisco.

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Nick



Posted by: BosonMichael
Date Posted: 27 October 2005 at 1:53pm

pentium4forever wrote:
TMichael wrote:
Wildcat_Dude wrote:
and talking about monster.com (and any others), don't bother responding to job ads that say Company Confidential - because they are 99.9% of the time not the hiring kind, they are resume centers themselves or training facilities (aka WOT - Waste Of Time)


I disagree - that's how I got my current contract-to-hire job. However, this discussion should probably go in its own thread.


I wouldn't think you'd need one of those type of jobs to get a job. I mean training program and then onto a job. You're well experienced and your certs you list should be enough to give you a chance at securing a position at maybe even Cisco.


Well, WD was specifically mentioning contract places that recruit techs for companies in exchange for a "recruitment fee" or "headhunter fee". Sure, I can get a job without using them... however, some companies *prefer* to use them to screen out applicants that don't fit the job description. Sometimes (but not always), the recruitment company does a heck of a lot better screening process than does a company's HR staff - and a busy CIO often doesn't have the time to wade through resumes of unqualified applicants.

I've always said that new techs shouldn't trust training companies claims of job placement. The centers may mean well... but they often fall short of what the new tech expects... and deserves, for the money they're paying.

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BosonMichael
MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
Served proudly, US Army, 98C Analyst, '89-'92



Posted by: Kablooy
Date Posted: 02 January 2006 at 7:32pm

To anyone thinking about going to ITT tech....DON'T!
I have an associate degree from ITT. I graduated with honors and had the highest GPA in my field of study.
I also have spent some time at traditional universities.
With this experience in mind I can confidently say that ITT tech is really a scam. ITT only exists to take the money from people that don't know what they are getting themselves into. They don't care about helping students learn. They dont care about giving their customers (students) a quality product. The bottom line is money.
If you want to go to a good tech school check out DeVry.
If you are going to the knowlege and don't care about having a degree to hang on the wall do certifications.
Whatever you do DO NOT go to ITT Tech.
Hopefully this post will help to save some people from wasting alot of money and time that could be better spent at a real school.



Posted by: pentium4forever
Date Posted: 03 January 2006 at 9:12pm

A lot of schools go for just money. Find out information from others, and make sure you surround yourself with good teachers who care about students. Some of these training schools are just scams, yes.

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Nick



Posted by: RhondaLee
Date Posted: 04 January 2006 at 8:41am

pentium... I have been using http://www.getthejob.com - GetTheJob.com ... they have lots of tech jobs and only list and link to jobs straight from employeer websites. :-)

-Rhonda



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 04 January 2006 at 10:45am

That's not a bad site, I've checked it out.

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: pentium4forever
Date Posted: 04 January 2006 at 12:54pm

It looks nice, I wonder if I can find anything more local though.....Thanks, I'll look at it some more later.

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Nick



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 04 January 2006 at 2:28pm

It didn't show Nashville, TN initially, but it does show jobs from there if you put it in the location

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: pentium4forever
Date Posted: 04 January 2006 at 5:42pm

getthejob.com. I'll have to remember that for looking more on it later tonight.

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Nick



Posted by: digima$ter
Date Posted: 05 January 2006 at 4:08am

I totally agree with u!



Posted by: billlee23
Date Posted: 16 January 2006 at 9:30am

This is my ITT story:

I attended and graduated from ITT Tech with an A.S. degree for a lot of money. 2nd biggest mistake in my life. This was in 1992. Hindsight is 20-20. I could have attended a local State college and would have gotten a B.S. for the same amount of money in the same field or one-up to an Electrical Engineering degree. I was young (high school grad), naive, and not really 4-yr college material (low PSAT score). It was a personal decision to go there, but at the same time, I was lured-in by the aspect of the "high demand technical field," etc. Two and a half years later, I graduated and found it difficult to find a "technical" job even through the job placement office. Other types of jobs were a plenty (i.e. UPS, FedEx and retail). I continued to be immature and was desperate to find work so I enlisted in the Navy. 1st biggest mistake of my life. Good thing it was after the 1st Gulf war, I participated in Operation No-Fly Zone.

I finally completed my time in service, came out and was fortunate enough to find work in the technical field as a Test Technician for a company once full of potential, Ortel. But simply as a Technician for $9+/hr (1998) was only chump change. I knew I had to do something better. Inherently, Engineering is the next step up. Therefore, with my GI Bill, I attended that same state college mentioned above. In 2002, I graduated with a B.S. with an EE degree. Jobs were scarce with the dot com bust, so I pursued a Master's in EE. Three quarters before I graduated, I got my first "REAL" job at Raytheon, three months later I left Raytheon and began working for Boeing in Long Beach, now as a Software Engineer for the C-17 program since 2004.

I can honestly say, ITT didn't help, though my journey through ITT and the Navy has led me to where I am today. If I had to do it all over again, I can safely say I wouldn't go through the same path again.



Posted by: veggetta3
Date Posted: 16 January 2006 at 4:58pm

ITT TECH, WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR I.T. COURSES ARE SEVERLY LACKING. THEIR EQUIPMENT,BOOKS AND SOMETIMES THE TEACHERS ARE NOT UP TO PAR WITH TECHNOLOGY. I GRADUATED FROM ITT TECH IN ANAHEIM,CA IN 2002 TO A 30,000 A YEAR WAREHOUSE JOB. MY GRADES WERE A'S AND B'S AND COULD NOT FIND ANYTHING BUT INTERN JOBS. THE JOB OFFERS I GOT WERE 8- 9 DOLLAR AN HOUR JOBS I COULD NOT TAKE. IVE BEEN TRYING TO SET UP AN APPOINTMENT WITH CAREER SERVICES BUT THEY WILL NOT RETURN MY CALL TO HELP ME FIND A JOB. IF ANYONE IS CONSIDERING ITT, DO NOT GO THERE. GO TO A COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND GET YOURE DEGREE THERE. GOOD LUCK.



Posted by: BosonMichael
Date Posted: 16 January 2006 at 9:29pm

veggetta3 wrote:
THE JOB OFFERS I GOT WERE 8- 9 DOLLAR AN HOUR JOBS I COULD NOT TAKE.


What were you expecting? My first tech job paid $11/hr... and that's with 18 years of "unofficial" computer-hobby experience.

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BosonMichael
MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
Served proudly, US Army, 98C Analyst, '89-'92



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 17 January 2006 at 6:12am

Mine paid $6.75hr with 10 years of "unofficial", then went to $10 after 1 year of verifible experience and 6 months probationary period. It took 3 years of verifiable experience before I started making halfway decent money then another 2 years of extremely long 80 & 60 hour weeks to start making good money at the next job (which didn't work me to death).

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: dc_40
Date Posted: 17 January 2006 at 2:30pm

I was paid $8.50 with no experience in 96 (Tampa, Fl). After gaining 1 year experience, I moved to san jose, CA was paid only $13-14. Cost living is high in the bay area. It took about 4-5 years of exprience to start making half decent money.

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DC40
CCNP,CWSP,CWNA,C|EH,MCP,CNA,A+
pursuing PMP



Posted by: ittsucker
Date Posted: 06 February 2006 at 12:14pm

Sorry, this oneís long. But itís fresh and informative.

It is so important people considering going to ITT see these posts. I just finished my first year at ITT SAP program and this will be my last quarter at ITT.

A year ago while I was researching which school to go to I ran across similar ITT forum topics such as this one. They have all been closed, but this one and a couple others remain up. Hoora.

When I read those posts a year ago I chalked it up to people not taking full advantage of the education being offered. I already have a good paying IT job during the day, ITT offered accessible evening classes and a good portion of the teachers have doctorates. How bad could it be?

I originally started in the CNS (networking) program, out of 35 students that started, today only 2 remain. The SAP program which I transferred into is doing a little better, there are 3 left from 20. Good teacher to student ratio!! Hahaha. Thatís a little joke I like to make here and then.

The reason for the small amount of students is that ITT makes their money on students that last only a few quarters. They know they are going to have a huge fall-out rate and that is why tuition is so high. (I kinda speculated there, read on though). There is a program here in its 7th quarter that only has one student left! They are going to cancel it and the student will have to wait for more students so he can continue! Do you think that student will ever get to quarter 16 at ITT? They offered him self study, but self study at 15 grand a year is ridiculous. That guy should sue the school.

Hereís something interesting. Recruiters get to take classes for free. New recruiters at my ITT love that idea, but after a couple of quarters they, like the students around them, quit their classes and usually quit their job not long after that. The recruiters that have stayed at ITT for a longer period of times probably, a. never tried the education out for themselves, or b. donít have a conscience.

So who is ITT good for? (I know some of you are shouting nobody! nobody! at your screen right now). Not exactly true. The exceptions are folks whose tuitions are going to be completely reimbursed by some large company or the government for one reason or another and who want a very calm relaxing, not necessarily high quality education. For everyone else who doesnít fit into that very small category ITT is incredibly depressing! It is a waste of time, money, and energy.

There are of course exceptions. There are always exceptions. I bet you couldíve found one veteran of WWII that thought the experience wasnít all that bad. I myself know a successfull ITT Tech graduate. But he wouldíve succeeded no matter where he went and then it just boils down to the fact that he paid three times as much as he should have and networked with only half the people he could have.

Iíd like to mention that being a 4.0 student at ITT tech is equivalent to being a 2.5 student anywhere else. Iím a 4.0 student. If someone boasts they graduated magna cum laude from ITT walk away from that person and never talk to them again.   

If you feel like ITT is your only option and no amount of bad press or poor reviews are going to stop you from going than I suggest you do a ton of extra homework on the side. ITT skims over the complex topics and those are the topics that distinguish a marketable professional from a hobby amateur.

If you can avoid it, please donít go to ITT Tech. If itís the only evening education option around, buy textbooks from your local University instead and do a self study. If you're not motivated to do that then your WORST option is to go to ITT Tech, since it takes an extremely high level of motivation to make something out of your ITT degree. And it takes an even higher level of ambition to get a job that pays off your ITT bill.

If you were hoping that at the end of my post I will include a section on how to transfer ITT credits to a reputable University, I apologize. I am on the same dismal journey. If anyone has any success stories, other than the ITT Chair of transferring credits please post.

The only one I've heard of taking them in University of Phoenix. And if you do your research into online at UofP it's just as big of a rip-off.



Posted by: PattySucks
Date Posted: 24 March 2006 at 11:49am

ITT is not a bad school or company... it all depends on your location and the staff. Now, just like any company, if you ahve total idiots running the place, then the company willnot functin properly. That's the case at ITT Ft. Lauderdale. Just walk around the campus and it will be plain to see.
As far as the education, you get what you put into it. If you (as a student) allow your instructor to be passive agressive, then he/she will. Now what is bad about ITT Ft. Lauderdale, they let all the GOOD instructor's go because the good instructor's catch on to the unhappy studnets and start to ask questions... that is then perseved as being and a**h** and the good instructor is then "forced" out to leave.

Now, the new lady in charge of Career services is a nother idiot. I do believe her job is to help graduates and studnets to find jobs... she is just about as lazy and good for nothing as they come. She acts like she is on drugs and is crazy. She acts and speaks to the students like she is better then they are and how are we suppose to feel comfortable with around someone like that?


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Patty is good for nothing...



Posted by: XYYZ
Date Posted: 28 April 2006 at 5:01am

It's actually worse than you think. I worked there for many years. I was behind the scenes. Be afraid. Very afraid!



Posted by: pentium4forever
Date Posted: 28 April 2006 at 12:37pm

XYYZ, you work for IT Tech? Is it really that bad?

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Nick



Posted by: rscomps
Date Posted: 02 May 2006 at 7:17pm

I currently attend ITT, I'm in my next to last quarter in ISS program. A little background: I'm a sr. network engineer with 16 years of experience in the field (most of it in networkng and security, some programming), with a bunch of certs, but I never got around to getting a degree, and now I simply don't have enough time to get one. So ITT fits in fine, with good evening schedule and nothing to do for classes. The price tag is way too high, but the company I used to work for covered it, and now that I don't work for it and have to cover it myself, I've got close enough to getting the degree that I might as well finish it, else the time'll be wasted.

Speaking of wasted time... If I were just entering the field, going to ITT would be a BAD idea. Here's a few reasons/examples why:

a) Teachers. 70% of what a school gives you comes from professors, no matter how good or bad the equipment and everything else is. Well, I wouldn't hire most of the professors I had here for a PC support tech position, much less for a position in networking or security. In almost 4 years at ITT I had 2 good and 2 more ok professors. None worked here for long. There's also one professor who can teach, but doesn't have the knowledge to actually pass on to his students. The rest... Well, some are next to impossible to understand (in addition to not knowing all that much), some, when asked a question and not knowing the answer, make up the answer (no kidding). So rather than just telling the student that they need to get more info on the question and get back to him, they make it up to hide their lack of knowledge. Frankly, I used to be afraid to not know something when I was in my first year in IT, but I've since learnt that no person can know everything, and it's OK not to know something, as long as you close that gap when you need to. You figure what it says about the professors here. I'm not even talking about giving "study guides" to students before the exams, which somehow resemble the exam itself about 100%.

b) Students. Naturally, the main criterion for enrolling a student is whether he can pay. Since the only other requirements are to pass the "aptitude test", which resembles a scaled down (to about 20 IQ points) IQ test and to have a high school diploma or GED, you can imagine the level of students. What puzzled me at first is that they passed most of the classes. Then again, if they pass, they keep paying (or the government keeps paying for them. That is, the taxpayers, haven't heard of the government making money yet, at least, not legally), right? So about 90% of my current class finds it hard to, for instance, create a user in Windows 2000. And Linux is the crucifixion. I'm not even talking about more "advanced" topics. The level of attention in class varies from none to active participation by talking loudly and shouting something idiotic (and unrelated to the subject, of course). In all fairness though, I must say that there 4 students in this class who actually learnt something, enough to start learning on their own. Still, even they wouldn't pass the tests without the "study guides", much less be able to do this job in the industry. Myself, I've learnt a lot about the walks of life I had no idea of in these 4 years, but nothing I've learnt at ITT has anything to do with networking or security. For comparison, I've learnt quite a lot even from some intro classes I took at several community classes (they have Cisco, Oracle, and MS Networking Academies at those, you know).

c) Equipment. Well, most of it is the cheapest you can get. Windows 2000 is still being studied in 2006. Mind you, many companies STILL use it, mine included. It's been 3 years since Windows 2003 came to be though. The one and the only firewall on this campus is a Watchguard Firebox III 700, I bought a similar one on Ebay for $150 to play with. No Cisco PIX, CheckPoint, or anything of the kind is in evidence. How many companies do you know which use Watchguard? I know one, a small business selling tiles. Real-life experience indeed. There's a (as in one) networking lab made out of a rack with 5 Cisco 2620 routers and 2 Catalyst 2900 switches. With at least 15 people in the class, you can imagine how many times each student will actually touch them. Mind you, it's not like many students even want to learn that anyway. At a guess, a degree from ITT might get them a government position, and that's that. My apologies to all the (few) good professionals working for the government. With all that, you'd think they might teach routing and switching in Windows or Linux to save on the lab equipment, but those topics are probably too advanced for 4th year students.

d) Textbooks. Well, this one's fun. ITT writes its own textbooks. At a guess, somewhere in India, judging by the language and the number of mistakes (and the amount of information about Indian laws and regulations). To give you the idea of the quality of information in these books, consider this. One of the textbooks seriously claimed that there're 5 layers in TCP/IP model. This question, by the way, was on the test, and when I asked about it, I was told that yeah, maybe there're 4 layers in TCP/IP model ("but I have to check on that"), but since the test is from the book, that's the answer I should give. Go figure.

Being bored in most classes, I tried to use my time creatively and pointed out these problems to the campus administration. The standard reply is that all this is decided at the headquarters in Indiana, the local campus administration has no power over the curriculum, and that's that.

So, if you're considering ITT, think of what you need to get from it. if you need an easy to get bachelors (and someone else can foot the bill), ITT would work. The schedule's ok, and getting a 4.0 GPA is a breeze. If you want to actually learn something, try community colleges, a lot of them have evening classes now, many are pretty good; university extentions (such as UCLA or UCI extention), some other trade schools (although I'd be careful with those. Still, I had some good experiences with those), and most notably, don't forget that you can learn a lot on your own. A home lab never hurt anyone.

And to the people who complain about not getting anything out of ITT, I sympathize, it is a rip-off, but you shouldn't forget that even at the best college, education is what you make out of it, and it applies to many other things as well, like many people on this forum had said. One can't expect the knowledge to be put into his brain, which seems to be the common misconception among students today. A good school can do a lot to help in that process, a crappy school like ITT will probably do nothing for it, but the responsibility to learn is yours, and yours only.



Posted by: BosonMichael
Date Posted: 02 May 2006 at 10:49pm

Actually, I've supported quite a few companies that have Watchguard fireboxes installed. I generally install SonicWall on fresh installs, but I have supported quite a few Watchguards.

Those Cisco routers you mentioned aren't cheap, by the way...

That being said, I can understand why you might be upset over the rest of the issues... but I wouldn't have stuck around till the last year of classes to begin with, regardless of who was paying.

All-in-all, you provide good advice for those considering attending ITT... things to get people thinking.



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BosonMichael
MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
Served proudly, US Army, 98C Analyst, '89-'92



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 03 May 2006 at 7:04am

rscomps, welcome to certcities and I applaud your first post as very informative and I've also have worked with Watchguard boxes in the past (although at the time not much, just assisted someone else).

I usually just ignore all the ITT posts but saw that TMichael had posted here so figured something was interesting if he posted a reply.

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: rscomps
Date Posted: 03 May 2006 at 9:35am

Thanks for the welcome.

I'm surprised about the Watchguards, to be honest. What kind of businesses were those, if you don't mind me asking? I've supported Checkpoints, mostly on Nokia or Linux boxes, Cisco, Sonicwalls, Fortigate, Juniper/Netscreen, and so on, but I've only seen a Watchguard in that small tile company I mentioned. From what I can tell, the older ones were built on Linux kernel 2.0, and so have that random memory dump vulnerability (at least, the Firebox II 700 I have at home could be exploited with it with upgraded firmware). Anyway, just curious.

As for 2620's, well, they could be bought for $300 on Ebay 2 years back (when my ITT campus got them), plus another $200 each for support agreement. Even if they got it directly from Cisco or Cisco reseller for the full retail price, my point was that there're 5 mid-to-low range routers for the entire campus, which is kinda few for the price people pay for these classes. Each class is about $1,400 or so now, they just raised the price so that the 4 years of bachelors cost you something around $80K. About 30% less in my case, as I tested out of some classes. For comparison, I took some 4-unit (quarter units as well, just like in ITT) Cisco classes at UCLA Extention, at $1,200 each. For that price, each student had access to his own 3-router and one switch rack (2600 and 2900), and the class had several 5500 and 6500 Catalysts and a range of routers from 800 and 2500 (yes, the legacy stuff, too) to 7200. I also took some classes at Coastline Community College, and while the lab there wasn't as great as UCLA Extention's, it still had quite a few routers and switches. All that at $24 per unit ($26 now, I believe), with a typical class being 3 units (or 1.5 units for short classes). I actually voiced a suggestion to build up the security/Cisco lab on my campus, but the reply was standard - headquarters in Indianapolis, must approve, probably won't happen.

As for sticking around until the end, well, I might be wrong, but in-between a full-time job, running consulting on the side, and constant learning/training/recertification, and needing a degree (some companies have policies which disqualify you automatically when you don't have one. For that matter, your resume has to go through HR first anyway, and it's not like most HR people don't look at whether or not you have a degree, be it even an ITT degree), the idea of getting a degree after some years of non-studying (at school, at least) and generally just showing up still sounds attractive :)

I have plans for a bachelors from UCLA and then (hopefully) doing my masters at Caltech, but that's far in the future, if it ever happens in the first place. For now, this would do. It's good enough for a regular E5 grunt like me, with no intelligence to analyze :)

Basically, I'm not disgusted for myself (I'm not exactly upset, just disgusted), I'm getting what I expected from it. I just hate seeing such gross incompetence and, well, greed. Ph well, another long post, I apologize :)



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 03 May 2006 at 12:47pm

Me and Mike both are famous for our long spills so don't worry about it

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: BosonMichael
Date Posted: 03 May 2006 at 8:46pm

I've seen Watchguard in a variety of small and medium sized businesses.

Keep in mind that not only does ITT have to buy those routers with your $80K-or-less tuition... they also have to buy or lease the property/building, pay the teachers, buy the books, buy the bandwidth, pay for support staff, etc... there's a lot of costs that you aren't seeing because they're not right in front of you. ;)

And long posts are good, as long as they've got meat to them, which yours do. :)

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BosonMichael
MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
Served proudly, US Army, 98C Analyst, '89-'92



Posted by: rscomps
Date Posted: 04 May 2006 at 2:17am

Oh, I realize the expenses they have. Still, one'd assume that, for example, UCLA Extention would pay more for rent/property tax in one of the best areas of Westwood than ITT would pay for a several times smaller campus in a rather bad area in West Covina. It pays more to its teachers, too (ITT pays something around $25/hr), it uses real tech. books as opposed to ITT ones, which has the sole benefit of cost-effectiveness. With all that, I'd love to have a lab like UCLA Extention has, and my home lab is more extensive than that of ITT. Anyway, I better stop posting on this topic. I'm not sure ITT's worth this much attention. I found this forum by chance in the first place, while trying to find a way to circumvent the ITT's blocking of domains like itt-tech-sucks.com (I was in class at the time). I'm glad I found it though :)

BTW, it was rather easy to bypass using Unicode (%25%13, etc.), and here I thought most proxy servers understand it these days.



Posted by: BosonMichael
Date Posted: 04 May 2006 at 6:04am

UCLA is provided funding by the state; ITT is not.

For the reasons you specified (as well as others), most of us on here recommend going to an accredited university rather than a technical school.

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BosonMichael
MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
Served proudly, US Army, 98C Analyst, '89-'92



Posted by: rscomps
Date Posted: 04 May 2006 at 8:36am

Amen to that. And (I just can't get off the subject, can I :)) I was talking about UCLA Extention. That one doesn't get money from the government, unlike the rest of UCLA, has classes ranging from $400 to $2500 per class, has different requirements for teachers (most of them don't teach full-time, they work in the industry and such), and their units aren't transferrable to regular degree schools. Basically, it provides continued education to those with at least a bachelors degree. For instance, CISSP or my brother's CPA require those credits, and UCLA Extention credits can be used for that, or just to learn a new technology on a decent level (at least, that was my experience with them). They're for-profit, as far as I can tell. By the way, it's the only place I've found around here (among the hundreds of schools in L.A. area) which has Juniper and Nortel classes. Haven't taken any myself, so I can't say anything about the quality of those, but if it's comparable to their Cisco and other classes, it has to be good. And even though bachelors is more or less a requirement for taking classes there, it's more flexible for IT classes.



Posted by: Mad Man Mark
Date Posted: 04 May 2006 at 8:31pm

WOW, just read this whole thread, Man. I must say this. I'm currently looking for a school to go and get some certs. And while checking out everything, Didn't go to ITT Tech, but every other place that I have been to have said the same thing about ITT Tech. That is that they see a lot of students after graduation having to come and get certified. That really stood out to me. I did hear that ITT TEch is a lot of money and for students to not be getting certified and than having to spend another couple thousand to get certified WOW! I mean there are tech school that for 6K you get a whole year to get as many certs as you can. That seems to be a better bang for your buck than ITT Tech is.

Just my .02 cents



Posted by: BosonMichael
Date Posted: 04 May 2006 at 9:23pm

I don't know about UCLA Extension specifically, but MTSU (Middle Tenn. State University) has a separate department that is similar - units aren't transferrable, teachers are non-Masters adjunct faculty (and have real full-time jobs elsewhere), provide continuing education, and classes aren't covered by normal tuition (students pay for each class separately). But THEY receive funding based on what MTSU budgets them... and MTSU receives money from the state. Therefore, I would think that UCLA Extension is similar, though I can't guarantee it. Otherwise, why would they call themselves UCLA-anything if they didn't receive some sort of funding/budget from UCLA?

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BosonMichael
MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
Served proudly, US Army, 98C Analyst, '89-'92



Posted by: rscomps
Date Posted: 04 May 2006 at 9:49pm

Could be. From what I was told, it was established at pretty much the same time as UCLA as a training school for the Army Engineers, and a big part of UCLA campus is actually leased from UCLA Extention by UCLA, as most of the land UCLA stands on belongs to it. That's pretty much as much as I know/have heard. They claim to be non-for-profit, but without state funding, at least, I believe, that was what their catalog said. I might be wrong, as it's been a while since I took classes there.



Posted by: BosonMichael
Date Posted: 04 May 2006 at 11:28pm

Did a Google search - looks like you are correct, that it receives no state funding.

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BosonMichael
MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
Served proudly, US Army, 98C Analyst, '89-'92



Posted by: Jmac29
Date Posted: 08 May 2006 at 10:17pm

I've read some of the postings and see that some have good points on both sides but some are not so good If not a little one sided.

I read one posting that complained that ITT Tech has some instructors that are working toward master degrees and teaching classes. I went to a community college and 1 out of every 3 of my classes were taught by a professor that was in the same boat. I really don't care what about that as long as they know the course curriculum and can do a good job teaching. I have had professors with phd's thatdid not have a clue how to pass the knowledge they have to their students.

In the same posting the person claimed that the school did not care if you failed as long as they got your tuition money. I from personal experience can tell you if you fail a class at ITT Tech or a community college. Either will give you a call demanding their money, so it is a little irresponsible to just say that ITT Tech doesn't give a damn about students. A community college will just defer your debt to a collection agency to handle the dirty work but as soon as you try to take more classes. Lets just say in order to take more classes you better have your checkbook ready to satisfy the debt and hope they reinstate your financial aid if you went that route.

I also found it laughable that the person was complaining about having to spend extra time studing for his certifications. It really is common sense. If you are a highschool basketball player and you were pretty good but you did just ok when the recruiters came around, you probably wont get that scholarship. Now lets say you played well when the recuiter showed up, you had some "certifications" like all-state and all-district. You will stand out more than the guy that just was ok

My expierience with ITT tech has been a good one. They never promised that I would make $80,000 right off the bat. They game me the Low, mediam, and high averages. I researched the iternet for the salary range in my area and it was pretty close.

ITT Tech is not perfect but a lot of what I have seen and experienced the same things at the community college. I am sure someone will always have a bad experience but a hand full of bad experiences does not make ITT Tech bad. Remember this post is about ITT Tech so it has become a venting session spinkled with some informative post from both sides here and there. There probably is a post somewhere else on the internet with a bunch of folks that are complaining about how their community college was ran when they attended.





Posted by: pentium4forever
Date Posted: 09 May 2006 at 5:54pm

There's also a good deal of us who simply are tired of having a dozen threads on the same subject.

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Nick



Posted by: Mad Man Mark
Date Posted: 09 May 2006 at 6:37pm

can't someone lock it out



Posted by: BosonMichael
Date Posted: 09 May 2006 at 9:50pm

pentium4forever wrote:
There's also a good deal of us who simply are tired of having a dozen threads on the same subject.


Or maybe it's just you. ;) heheheh

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BosonMichael
MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
Served proudly, US Army, 98C Analyst, '89-'92



Posted by: Ubuntu4u
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 3:28pm

BS in computer science FTW. Doesn't matter if you received quality instruction, you will still get the interview.

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/train



Posted by: pentium4forever
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 3:50pm

ITT rules! just kidding.

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Nick



Posted by: echappy
Date Posted: 24 June 2006 at 3:05pm

I really need help I am a new student at ITT online.   All the places where you are suppose to open don't open.   For example I cant find out what chapter I am on.   I want to drop out and I know they will try to charge me. I think I should get a lawyer.    Does anybody have any advise. Plz Reply


Sincercly,
Echappy
www.echappy.com



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 24 June 2006 at 4:33pm

yep, read the rest of the stories here, but if you signed up and signed the contract, you're gonna pay, regardless. You'd have to prove beyond a doubt that they violated the contract. But if you drop out before then, you're screwed.

and since you're smart enough to run a commerical business, you should have been smart enough to read the fine print and checked them out. Don't think that ITT won't use that to their advantage in court.

Oh and don't think they won't *try* to charge you, they *will* charge you as per the contract you signed. If you need help finding a chapter online, contact them for assistance.

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: pentium4forever
Date Posted: 24 June 2006 at 5:21pm

echappy wrote:
Does anybody have any advise. Plz Reply
Sincercly,
Echappy
www.echappy.com


Run! Run out of the United States to a different country! Go hide and see how Osama bin Laden manages to hide so well!

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Nick



Posted by: clue
Date Posted: 06 July 2006 at 11:23am

Im an employee of a company named MCI Desarrollos, could you send us information about the certification?

Thanks

clue



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 06 July 2006 at 11:36am

What certification are you referring to? ITT doesn't certify you in anything.

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




Posted by: pentium4forever
Date Posted: 08 July 2006 at 2:28pm

I wonder if anyone has good experiences with ITT. When people have bad experiences, that is when they tend to share it.

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Nick



Posted by: Wildcat_Dude
Date Posted: 08 July 2006 at 7:02pm

Yes Nick, go back and read all 30 pages of this thread (which I know you have, over & over & over)

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MCSE:Security & MCSA:Security, MCDST, MCP XP, CompTIA Sec+, A+ & N+
USAF (68-77) SP K9 Vietnam Vet 1969-DaNang, 1970-Tuy Hoa, Retired Police Detective/Narcotics/K9




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